thanks for the details and and taking the time to explain. as you mentioned, it really does seem to be about 'minutia'. which once again, I find strange/obsessive, and based in 'this world' rather than looking beyond to heaven. the writing also reminds me a lot of lawyers-how they argue their cases, and make a game of words.
but like you said, I'm looking at it from a 21st century Christian perspective, so difficult to comprehend the different layers and history.
I tried listening to a rabbi explain it, but felt like the video was more about his personality than the book. so maybe I can find an audio version to go through on my own time. might understand it better that way, and your reply gives me some context to go with:)
My father has some volumes of Talmud translations. I took it off the shelf, opened it to a page at random and it was very much like reading a legal text. That's why I find it frustrating when someone cites some of the saucier anecdotes and then implies that the entire Talmud is made of stuff like that.
Judaism often moves away towards too much discussion of the next world (Shamayim, or Heaven) in favor of this one for a couple reasons.
One is we're here now, and we need to focus on what we're doing here instead of the next world.
Two is a contrast to Egypt, which held the Israelites as slaved. The Egyptians were obsessed with death. Their holy book was "The Book of the Dead." Their monuments we think of today -- the pyramids -- are giant tombs. Judaism was to focus on life and living rather than death and the afterlife.
Still, there are some afterlife traditions that even I was ignorant about, but I found some Rabbis who discuss it. You can find some on the website "Torahanytime.com"
thanks again for another interesting explanation and website. and yes, the type of writing definitely had that legal tone to it, so sure it confuses most readers, perhaps that's the point? Jesus taught in parables so true followers would be able to understand...so maybe this is similar...
was fascinated with the Egyptians when younger because of the cats;) then King Tut came to America, and I was mesmerized. it really is some different stuff. it was like a slow introduction to the occult. no wonder schools have so many books about it.
Yes, that's part of what makes the Talmud so confusing. And why they always say you need a teacher when you study it.
The Tanach (Torah/Bible) is much more accessible. Similar to the gospels. There are stories that can access all readers. Children and scholars and all in between can both discuss the significance of Noah's ark or the golden calf. They'll discuss it at different levels of comprehension, but they can get the basis.
The Talmud though is more for a certain set. There's some stories, but even the stories in the Talmud are heavy with symbolism and "you need to know this so you can understand that."
I recall one Rabbi discussing a story / passage that was heavy with symbolism. Like "A Frog became a Tree which became a Bird, which lay an egg and if I didn't see it I wouldn't have believed it." When he offered his explanation (what frog and bird and tree meant) ... let's just say any guesses I had to what it was about at the start were completely in the dark.
interesting, thanks for the links. can never have too much info in times like these. also some of what you mentioned sounds familiar as I've listened to bill cooper, etc. interesting times indeed, and definitely a lot to discern;)
thanks for the details and and taking the time to explain. as you mentioned, it really does seem to be about 'minutia'. which once again, I find strange/obsessive, and based in 'this world' rather than looking beyond to heaven. the writing also reminds me a lot of lawyers-how they argue their cases, and make a game of words.
but like you said, I'm looking at it from a 21st century Christian perspective, so difficult to comprehend the different layers and history.
I tried listening to a rabbi explain it, but felt like the video was more about his personality than the book. so maybe I can find an audio version to go through on my own time. might understand it better that way, and your reply gives me some context to go with:)
My father has some volumes of Talmud translations. I took it off the shelf, opened it to a page at random and it was very much like reading a legal text. That's why I find it frustrating when someone cites some of the saucier anecdotes and then implies that the entire Talmud is made of stuff like that.
Judaism often moves away towards too much discussion of the next world (Shamayim, or Heaven) in favor of this one for a couple reasons.
One is we're here now, and we need to focus on what we're doing here instead of the next world.
Two is a contrast to Egypt, which held the Israelites as slaved. The Egyptians were obsessed with death. Their holy book was "The Book of the Dead." Their monuments we think of today -- the pyramids -- are giant tombs. Judaism was to focus on life and living rather than death and the afterlife.
Still, there are some afterlife traditions that even I was ignorant about, but I found some Rabbis who discuss it. You can find some on the website "Torahanytime.com"
thanks again for another interesting explanation and website. and yes, the type of writing definitely had that legal tone to it, so sure it confuses most readers, perhaps that's the point? Jesus taught in parables so true followers would be able to understand...so maybe this is similar... was fascinated with the Egyptians when younger because of the cats;) then King Tut came to America, and I was mesmerized. it really is some different stuff. it was like a slow introduction to the occult. no wonder schools have so many books about it.
Yes, that's part of what makes the Talmud so confusing. And why they always say you need a teacher when you study it.
The Tanach (Torah/Bible) is much more accessible. Similar to the gospels. There are stories that can access all readers. Children and scholars and all in between can both discuss the significance of Noah's ark or the golden calf. They'll discuss it at different levels of comprehension, but they can get the basis.
The Talmud though is more for a certain set. There's some stories, but even the stories in the Talmud are heavy with symbolism and "you need to know this so you can understand that."
I recall one Rabbi discussing a story / passage that was heavy with symbolism. Like "A Frog became a Tree which became a Bird, which lay an egg and if I didn't see it I wouldn't have believed it." When he offered his explanation (what frog and bird and tree meant) ... let's just say any guesses I had to what it was about at the start were completely in the dark.
interesting, thanks for the links. can never have too much info in times like these. also some of what you mentioned sounds familiar as I've listened to bill cooper, etc. interesting times indeed, and definitely a lot to discern;)