Solid, thoughtful post. Yes, the Church isn't Jesus. Quite a few churches aren't -- appearances aside -- even Christian.
My approach since childhood has been to ignore the church and for that matter, most of the Bible, some of which (especially in the Old Testament) is cruel enough that Jesus himself opposed it (John 8:7 . . . He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her).
Jesus taught kindness. Love, compassion, brotherhood -- call it what you will.
Everything flows from that. EVERYTHING: respect for others, willingness to sacrifice when necessary, personal responsibility, charity, honesty, protection of the weak and the young -- every good and necessary element in human life comes from love and suffers from its lack.
Two more verses from John make the point, and include Jesus' OWN definition of who his disciples are:
John: 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
Believe in whatever you want - personally, inwardly and on your own terms.
That's a great line right there, fren. When people take Jesus' admonition to carry love in their hearts, their inner life changes; the healthy side is reinforced and the words of long-dead strangers and present-day preachers are evaluated in light of the need for kindness. We learn best what we come to from our own earnest thoughts and honest feelings.
written after the events in question and has been under control of the controllers the entire time.
Of COURSE the Bible was written long after the events; no direct recording tech was available so it can be nothing but hearsay, then written down by people who had their own agendas (who doesn't), then translated into English by another group with THEIR own agendas.
We don't know for certain what happened yesterday so I don't make the mistake of thinking something written thousands of years ago is accurate. It might be a reasonably close description of events but it might not. I'm not someone who believes every word in the Bible was written by an infallible God.
There's enough similarity in the VOICE and content of Jesus' words in the New Testament (well, until Revelations, when a jarring change of voice occurs) to persuade me that much of what is reported of Jesus' words might actually be from one man and close to his meaning. The need for kindness and love comes through strongly.
Since I PERSONALLY believe (from experience and from years of study; for example, see the ACE Study on Adverse Childhood Experiences for how early trauma creates life-long harm) that love and kindness are the most important key to a healthy life and a healthy society -- I find Jesus' teachings in that regard to be important -- all the moreso because people have been reading them and trying to live by them for millennia now. Even with all the corruption we've seen in the various churches over the centuries, the narrative Jesus left us has survived and people continue to believe in its importance. I find organized Christianity a very mixed bag, but much of what Jesus' has to say (yes, see above: might have said, etc) is profound, simple to understand, and speaks deeply to any decent person. It's a message that has been carried down through time (and not only from Jesus or in the Bible) because love / brotherhood / connection to others is what we are made for; it is the meaning of life at the deepest level.
Solid, thoughtful post. Yes, the Church isn't Jesus. Quite a few churches aren't -- appearances aside -- even Christian.
My approach since childhood has been to ignore the church and for that matter, most of the Bible, some of which (especially in the Old Testament) is cruel enough that Jesus himself opposed it (John 8:7 . . . He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her).
Jesus taught kindness. Love, compassion, brotherhood -- call it what you will.
Everything flows from that. EVERYTHING: respect for others, willingness to sacrifice when necessary, personal responsibility, charity, honesty, protection of the weak and the young -- every good and necessary element in human life comes from love and suffers from its lack.
Two more verses from John make the point, and include Jesus' OWN definition of who his disciples are:
John: 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
That's a great line right there, fren. When people take Jesus' admonition to carry love in their hearts, their inner life changes; the healthy side is reinforced and the words of long-dead strangers and present-day preachers are evaluated in light of the need for kindness. We learn best what we come to from our own earnest thoughts and honest feelings.
Of COURSE the Bible was written long after the events; no direct recording tech was available so it can be nothing but hearsay, then written down by people who had their own agendas (who doesn't), then translated into English by another group with THEIR own agendas.
We don't know for certain what happened yesterday so I don't make the mistake of thinking something written thousands of years ago is accurate. It might be a reasonably close description of events but it might not. I'm not someone who believes every word in the Bible was written by an infallible God.
There's enough similarity in the VOICE and content of Jesus' words in the New Testament (well, until Revelations, when a jarring change of voice occurs) to persuade me that much of what is reported of Jesus' words might actually be from one man and close to his meaning. The need for kindness and love comes through strongly.
Since I PERSONALLY believe (from experience and from years of study; for example, see the ACE Study on Adverse Childhood Experiences for how early trauma creates life-long harm) that love and kindness are the most important key to a healthy life and a healthy society -- I find Jesus' teachings in that regard to be important -- all the moreso because people have been reading them and trying to live by them for millennia now. Even with all the corruption we've seen in the various churches over the centuries, the narrative Jesus left us has survived and people continue to believe in its importance. I find organized Christianity a very mixed bag, but much of what Jesus' has to say (yes, see above: might have said, etc) is profound, simple to understand, and speaks deeply to any decent person. It's a message that has been carried down through time (and not only from Jesus or in the Bible) because love / brotherhood / connection to others is what we are made for; it is the meaning of life at the deepest level.