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posted ago by swampbeast ago by swampbeast +67 / -2

I'm finding it hard to get them to at least consider that we might have some "earthly help" with Trump and the military and Q and they are very black pilled and ready for rapture. Has anybody had the same issue?

Comments (101)
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mjs001 29 points ago +29 / -0

A big problem with Christians, of which I am one, is the perception that being Christian is being "nice" to everyone. I don't think Jesus was necessarily nice - the money changers at the Temple certainly didn't think so. Jesus wasn't nice to the demons he cast out, or the pharisees. He loved people and was concerned for their salvation. The same for us. Most people are unaware of the ongoing battle of good vs evil; there is no point being nice to those aligned with evil - Biden, Pelosi, Schumer, Clinton, etc. To be Christian is to pray for their conversion, but not to be nice to them while they work to enact Satan's plans.

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SuddenRealization 18 points ago +18 / -0

This. Being kind and showing love is a virtue but being "nice" is not.

"Politeness" in failing to address evil and bad theology within the church led to cultural rot. Within the broader cultural, Christians have been taught to be silent on politics (including morality!!) rather than speaking the truth without judgment of someone's final fate.

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MAGA_mandalorian 9 points ago +9 / -0

Exactly. There's this "turn the other cheek" attitude that christians, of which I am, seem to follow to an absolute fault. Do not turn the other cheek on evil, rebuke evil. Jesus literally took the time to make a whip and drive out the money grifters who set up shop in the house of the Lord. That doesn't seem very turn the other cheek to me. Because they were in the wrong and swindling (lying) in the presence of the Lord with no shame. We need to chanel the Chad energy that Jesus had and drive out the swindlers and those who gladly do evil, out of this place and bring glory and honor back to The One and yet The Three, who created all. God doesn't tolerate evil. See sodam and gamora for the end result of that. He literally wiped them off the face of the earth in one stroke. Don't know about you guys but I'm siding with the Dude who can do that in an afternoon. Amongst other important reasons of course. But the wrath of God is terrifying and I don't wanna be on the receiving end of that

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SuddenRealization 8 points ago +8 / -0

Yep, let God handle personal revenge but we should be advocating for a civil governance that is just, protects the newborn, widowed, and poor (in a fair way not in a govt handout sense), and metes out punishment for actual evil.

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MAGA_mandalorian 6 points ago +6 / -0

Exactly. "Vengeance will be mine saith the Lord. AND I WILL DELIVER" Pretty sure God says that multiple times in the Bible

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JeremiahKassin 7 points ago +7 / -0

Part of the purpose of "turn the other cheek" is you're not supposed to leave yourself vulnerable to the same attack twice. Also, God only gave you two cheeks.

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MAGA_mandalorian 3 points ago +3 / -0

Third time is the charm. Gonna get that butt whooping then

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Rhinomyte 3 points ago +3 / -0

well said

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MarkusCincinnatus 7 points ago +7 / -0

Jesus was also occasionally critical of normies and even His own followers: “oh ye of little faith”, “Why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' but not do what I say”

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NoApologyTour 1 point ago +1 / -0

The elites have shaped the public narrative to define “nice” to be giving your money and ceding your power/rights to the government. Never mind that the corrupt system pockets most of it. Never mind that things are getting worse and society is falling apart. All that matters is that if you have something, or if you disagree you are now a bad person. Sadly most of society has bought into this.

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kula 22 points ago +24 / -2

The church has been compromised and most Christians do not have a personal relationship with God. Rather they have given their allegiance to Mammon in the form of the State. You can see that in the tolerant attitude towards abortion. Look to your light and ask Spirit to be part of His plan, He's got this.

Oh and the Trump derangement also indicates that he is part of God's plan otherwise why the constant attacks? Jesus warned us that we would be seen as the transgressors, just as He was.

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ryvrdrgn14 15 points ago +15 / -0

There are people like that. You can't shove your own truth down their throats. Just remain a friend and make it easy for them to come back and talk about it if ever they change their mind in the future.

Many people have found it hard to have faith in anything.

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74nooffub 5 points ago +5 / -0

I like this. And remember that God isn't being slow; He's being patient.

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Trumpette2020 3 points ago +3 / -0

This how I handle it. Being loving so they know when their ideas shift you will be there for them and let God give them the epiphanies bc Lord knows I could never do what God can in respect to showing the truth. Unless God uses me as the vessel to do so, and I usually pick up when that is the case.

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BarrBQ 14 points ago +14 / -0

Have them go back and take a look at the "heroes" of the Old Testament. Remind them that God doesn't use people because of their strengths... he uses them in spite of their weaknesses.

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MAGA_mandalorian 4 points ago +4 / -0

Exactly. I mean look at Jericho. Look at Gideon and the 300. God uses warriors and leaders to do battle on earth against the powers of evil. And with Him victory is GUARANTEED. No need for doubts

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Hopiumaddict 11 points ago +11 / -0

I know many who won’t support Trump because they believe he has too many haters. They think we need a candidate who doesn’t have so much hate against them; but they fail to realize that the media is to blame for that. Whatever candidate we have who actually wants to make our lives better will be smeared and slandered. If not Trump, they’ll do it to Desantis, and whoever else will try to follow in their foot steps. The media still remains public enemy number ONE.

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MAGA_mandalorian 7 points ago +7 / -0

Another common complaint among Christians I know is that trump didn't speak eloquently enough. He's too brash and unpolished. Like seriously?? That's what you don't like about him???? They fall for the illusion that a silver tongue means they're educated enough to run a country. I don't see it that way at all because the devil is a smooth talking silver tongue SOB. And he's the father of lies. I want the hard truth over a beautiful lie. I'll take mean tweets and cheap gas for 500 Alex

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MissMagaMillenial 5 points ago +5 / -0

The people who hated Jesus viewed Him the same way- “he wasn’t trained in the synagogue to be a priest, so He doesn’t know what he’s talking about.” Pharisees all wore fancy clothes and said fancy prayers while Jesus was walking around with a band of rag tag fishermen not caring anything about how he looked. Maybe point that out to your friends

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MAGA_mandalorian 2 points ago +2 / -0

Exactly! Jesus used a rag tag group of men to spread His truth! Just because you're not seen as "normal" or "conventional" or "well spoken enough" doesn't mean God doesn't have a plan for you. Quite the opposite really. God seems to use rebels and odd men out to carry out His will. Look at David! A literal nobody, just some squire type boy. But through him, God defeated Goliath and David became the King of Israel and Jesus was born from his bloodline. Moses was a nobody slave set up to be murdered by pharaoh at his birth. He was a rabble rouser who killed a slaver for beating a slave. But through him God freed the Israelites from Egyptian slavery. God favors the nobody. The humble of heart. And I take great pride in being a nobody in service to the King of all

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MissMagaMillenial 3 points ago +3 / -0

Amen. God always uses the “less sophisticated” people to do the greatest works. How do normie christians not see that? They are supporting Pharisees and have no clue. Do they just not read the Bible? Do they not try to use critical thinking to apply the Bible to our present lives? I hate seeing Christians still asleep

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MAGA_mandalorian 4 points ago +4 / -0

Christians have been lulled into a slumber of inaction and tolerance. It's sad really. Somewhere along the lines we became comfortable and church became a 1-2 hour a week chore. Fighting for what's right and speaking your mind became too much trouble to be worth it. Rebuking evil to it's face became rude and non Christian somehow. We must be bold warriors for God. We must put on our armor of God and fight against evil. God wants us to be bold, strong warriors in His name. And Christians forgot

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Hopiumaddict 2 points ago +2 / -0

Absolutely! Seems to obvious to me. For others.. still haven’t had the veil lifted I guess.

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MarkusCincinnatus 5 points ago +5 / -0

It’s crazy that they would allow the haters that much influence

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IlIlIlIlIl 8 points ago +8 / -0

Psalm 118:8 says that it is better to take refuge in the Lord than to trust in man. If Trump, Q, etc., plan to do their thing, good for them. As a Christian, I’m to trust God and not misplace my trust in man. As a Christian, I should be full of the joy of the Lord. All this other stuff is a fleeting earthly moment.

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ilovetrump4 2 points ago +2 / -0

True, but PLEASE VOTE and keep fighting.

Sitting back and waiting for deliverance while not using one's God-given abilities to further Good against evil denues the world the benefit of one's gifts and, worse, allows "them" to wreak more havoc and pain on the innocent, helpless and brainwashed.

PLEASE, EVERYONE - AT THE VERY MINIMUM, MAKE THEM CHEAT HARDER and help expose them BY VOTING - it's the least one can do.

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Notimportant81 7 points ago +7 / -0

If Trump were evil as they say, why does the church of Satan also hate him and witches world wide do spells against him? As a Christian, I would hesitate big time on being on the same side as those two great evil, worldly organizations.

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Greatheart 6 points ago +7 / -1

Well as far as I am concerned "The rapture" if that is even a good term refers to an awakening within. One moment you are lost and the next you are a new creature. (You just met the Lord in the air) From the outside nothing has changed. But on the inside everything is new.

People believe in the apocalypse but they did not even understand what the word even means. The word in the bible that is translated apocalypse means revelation.
The apocalypse in the bible is the uncovering of the truth. The revealing of the truth. The last book of the bible is the Revelation from Jesus

The word apocalypse in English does not have the same meaning as the greek-hebrew words that were translated do.

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deleted 6 points ago +6 / -0
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Celt 3 points ago +3 / -0

the rapture is a loony fringe belief pushed by head slapping TV preachers who fly around in private jets.

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FEARNOT 6 points ago +6 / -0

As a “ not so good “ Christian I can tell you Christianity is great at keeping sheep blind. Churches traded their voice for a tax exemption. They remain “ neutral “ to prevent them from loosing donations. Money first, everything else after that.

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Halya 6 points ago +6 / -0

Trump is pro-life; Biden is pro-abortion. As a Christian thats all I need to know. And now look how easy it is to eliminate people.

I recall many years ago watching the DNC convention on tv. They were putting out their platform. When they announced there will be no reference to God in any policy, I never saw so many adults cheering continuously for a good few minutes. I was shocked. I waited for a lightning bolt to strike.

There is a lot of controversy over rapture - pre, mid, post tribulation. What will they do in the meantime if it is post-trib or even if they are left behind? What about their kids or grand kids? How sure are they that they will be raptured?

The best way for evil to succeed is for good people do nothing.

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CovfefeNegro 6 points ago +6 / -0

As my Lovely Wife reminds me at times, we cannot defeat Evil until the return of Christ. So there's that.

But I respond to her that while her words are true, we CAN hope to defeat many of the Human minions doing the bidding of Evil, such persons as pelosi and hillary, thousands and thousands of others, are within reach and we have the evidences, so there is also that.

I wonder if your friends are Catholic, damn near all the Christians I know love Trump and do understand that our government is corrupted, but being non Catholic Christians they seek to continue to turn that other cheek. Catholics are funny...like pelosi.

'Normies' are part of our job descriptions tho - we are 'sposed to help them get throiugh these things, the coming days will be even worse after all. They do not all have to wake up or understand, most will not in fact do so. We can help them tho, not necessarily to wake up but to cope as events unfold.

Remember, not everyone will survive this, many people seem not to want to survive actually.

Yeah, we all notice those sorts of things, we all know some level of despair as we do notice the reality of sleepwalkers around us, sure. It is why we are here, to help them through this all.

https://files.catbox.moe/e4h2uj.jpg

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MAGA_mandalorian 4 points ago +4 / -0

You're right, evil will be truly and finally defeated when Christ comes again. BUT! That doesn't mean we sit around and do nothing while we wait. God gave us eden and the earth to take care of. That was Adams job before the fall. Name all the animals, and care for them and the garden. Not trying to sound like a greenie weirdo, but we're caretakers of the earth. That means driving out the sickness (evil) and strive to keep it at bay till the A team arrives at the end of days. God doesn't tolerate evil and neither should we. So in a round about sort of way I'm totally agreeing with you and adding my own thoughts my fren

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CovfefeNegro 3 points ago +3 / -0

It's very much an individual free will choice - people can choose to have Faith or not. People can choose to be thoughtful caring Humans or not.

And we should seek to establish and enforce Laws, God's Laws really but also the lesser laws of Man. When we fail to do those things as a Society we all suffer.

But we 'may' not be able to affect that change we need to become a moral Society, we of course will never root out all the Evil, so it IDS a constant struggle.

On an individual level we struggle, on the institutional level we FIGHT.

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MAGA_mandalorian 4 points ago +4 / -0

Exactly this fren. Couldn't have said it better myself!

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deleted 1 point ago +1 / -0
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MAGA_mandalorian 1 point ago +1 / -0

That's pretty condescending of you to say something like that fren. How would you know what's in my heart or how I would treat Christ when he comes again? Short answer, you don't

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Celt 1 point ago +1 / -0

Yeah, he aint coming and i know exactly your type. Pious evangelist who talks in tongues and lets scammers slap them on the head.

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MAGA_mandalorian 1 point ago +1 / -0

I don't think you "know my type" at all. I've never claimed to speak in tongues, nor have I ever spoken in tongues. You assume too much and make yourself look like a fool in the process. All im doing is bringing the glory and honor back to the Lord for giving me this life. And I use this life to work only to please Him first and foremost, and to uplift those around me, not for self gratification. I'm a nobody and I'm content with that. While I'm not perfect, nor do I claim to be, all I can do is my best, and ask God to forgive me for my sins, which I will inevitably give in to. It's the curse of humanity, and try as I might, I can't escape it. Except through the blood of Christ, who took my sins and your sins upon Himself and died in our place as the final sacrifice, the final blood payment, so we don't have to die, in the spiritual sense. Which is the payment for sin. You can groan and knash your teeth all you want, but woe is to those who reject the Lord our God. Be well fren and may God bless you and show you His unending love so you may have peace

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deleted 1 point ago +1 / -0
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MissMagaMillenial 1 point ago +1 / -0

Ask your wife why so many battles were fought throughout the Bible. And ask why God assisted certain armies in winning the battles. Tell her God works through humans to get His desired outcome as shown multiple times in the Old Testament

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CovfefeNegro 2 points ago +2 / -0

KEK! Are you really Female? I ask because you want me to pull the female tiger's tail.....

We don't question God, but thank you and I do understand your thoughts and do appreciate your Faith.

https://files.catbox.moe/1gsth0.png

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MissMagaMillenial 1 point ago +1 / -0

Hahaha yep! I don’t want you to start any fights with your wife though 😂 I think you can have discussions about just about anything as long as you say it very tactfully

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CQVFEFE 6 points ago +6 / -0

Trump is the only president I ever saw a roomful of evangelicals lay hands on and pray over as a messenger from God, sent to save the world from evil.

He's always been a Christian.

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Celt -2 points ago +1 / -3

So christians cheat on their wives with porn stars and pay them off? The idea that Trump is a christian is laughable. Very few proper rich people are which is why they dont live by any rules. If that shit is your idea of christianity then you dont know what it is.

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deleted 2 points ago +2 / -0
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Celt 1 point ago +1 / -0

Give it a rest. It was never a secret about Trump and Stormy Daniels and i suppose he paid her $130000 just coz he's a nice guy. Oh, and i suppose the recording of him saying he grabs women by the pussies was fake too. lol.

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deleted 1 point ago +1 / -0
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CQVFEFE 1 point ago +1 / -0

You seem like a nice person exemplifying Christian standards

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Celt 2 points ago +3 / -1

Evangelicals are the worst type of fake christians going. They give nothing up for their supposed faith. They turn christianity into a business and get fat off the profits. Like Kenneth Copeland. The devil himself.

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GODisinc0ntr0l 4 points ago +4 / -0

Try to find out where they are getting their news/information. Maybe if you can expose that (fake news!), you'll have a better chance of showing them truth, then the real truth about Trump, etc.. will fall into place. The brainwashing, disinformation, and misinformation is real. Chances are they also got the jab thinking they were 'doing their part'. Sheeple.

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Mycovidfeelslikeacol 4 points ago +4 / -0

Sometimes I wonder if the people who care about this country have been lulled into inaction by the promise of a savior coming to help them and being told it's all a movie.

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deleted 3 points ago +3 / -0
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1776forever1776 3 points ago +3 / -0

Sitting back and waiting, while wildly speculating about Things - without evidence, is not a convincing position or strategy.

Plan or not, it’s better to point out the failures of Government and progressive politicians.

Pray, train, prep & vote.

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SJBHamilton 3 points ago +3 / -0

Too many people haven't learned their lesson and are still caught up in appearances, not substance.

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NanaQ45 3 points ago +3 / -0

Yep. I'm a Christian...the NEW KIND...my Savior came in flipping tables and standing in His righteousness...these passive shits are a complete embarrassment. We ARE NOT ALIKE.

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rickynottricky 2 points ago +2 / -0

Amen!

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TeaPartySon 3 points ago +5 / -2

Same here and don't even try to tell them that the Rapture isn't in Scripture.

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callmedesdinova 4 points ago +4 / -0

The word isn't, the event is. Multiple times. Pre, mid AND post tribulation. Chew on that one for awhile.

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SuddenRealization 3 points ago +3 / -0

The rapture is in scripture just not before the Great Tribulation. Jesus describes it in Matthew 24 and (imo) it is described again in Revelation 14.

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Lance-White 1 point ago +2 / -1

Matthew 24 was fulfilled in 70 AD and the word rapture isn't in God's Word. Dispensational churches think they can split Matt 24 up into two parts, 2000 years apart.

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MudPuddlePie 3 points ago +3 / -0

The greek word Harpazo is the word in the bible. It is translated “rapture” in our English.

So, yes, it is in God’s word.

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SuddenRealization 3 points ago +3 / -0

Matthew 24:29-31 has clearly not happened yet. The word rapture, similar to the word Trinity, is not found in scripture but the concept is present.

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Lance-White 1 point ago +1 / -0

I think it has.

Matthew 24

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

70 AD

Luke 21

20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

It's a great study. I think we're further along than we think which is pretty kool.

Here's a great link of info. But but my pastor... nevermind about your pastor! He's there for the money!

https://news.gab.com/2021/12/01/matthew-24-and-revelation-fulfilled-in-ad-70-or-future-part-5/

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SuddenRealization 2 points ago +2 / -0

I'll admit verse 34 is difficult to reconcile if you think the translation of γενεά as generation is correct.

I do think if everything happened in AD 67-70 it's likely we would have a record of the sky changing and stars falling in history. I lean more toward the interpretation that γενεά in this context means people group, age, or family. All would be appropriate and imo it fits more with the surrounding context. I am completely open to evidence otherwise however. My conclusions don't have anything to do with my current pastors.

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Lance-White 1 point ago +1 / -0

1611 comes up with generation. Where did you come up with yevea?

Matthew 24:34 [34]Uerely I say vnto you, this generation shall not passe, till all these things be fulfilled.

I like what you said about the pastors. Nothing like doing your own research with the Spirit guiding you.

At one time I glossed over the significance of what the Romans did in that 70 AD period then I learned more and it was quite devastating and complete.

Let's face it nothing pisses people off more than the Judeans. 1611 KJV 1 Thessalonians 2:14-15 [14]For yee, brethren, became followers of the Churches of God, which in Iudea are in Christ Iesus: for ye also haue suffered like things of your owne countreymen, euen as they haue of the Iewes: [15]Who both killed the Lord Iesus, and their owne Prophets, and haue persecuted vs: and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:

Notable hints. Jesus said I have not found so great faith no not in Israel when he was referring to that believing Centurion.

The fig tree he cursed for not having any fruit. I think Matt 21:19

In Matthew 23 Jesus mentions that generation again. We didn't have news coverage and cameras on the ground when Rome came in and leveled everything and swept it away around 70 AD.

Did Jesus return at that time?? Once again anyone taking notes not a Roman I presume was killed. So no witnesses.

Fascinating study.

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SuddenRealization 2 points ago +2 / -0

γενεά is the Greek word used in verse 34 - https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/24.htm

I think while it's possible he did return in 70 AD based on the description, Revelation matches the series of events pretty closely and then goes into a millennium kingdom.

If we're past the great tribulation there is either a long time inbetween that and when the millennium kingdom occurs, or we missed it. Both of those seem unlikely to me based on the text.

The other option I can think of is the passage in Matthew and Revelation are referring to different events, but that would mean the events in Revelation are less of a Tribulation than the Great Tribulation in Matthew.

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MAGA_mandalorian 1 point ago +1 / -0

I think you're right. Don't the souls who died in Christ's name ask Him why He's waiting to judge the world? And then Jesus responds that they must wait a little while longer yet

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SuddenRealization 3 points ago +3 / -0

This is just based on my best understanding of scripture. I am beholden to what scripture says, not what I think based on what I've studied in depth thus far. I encourage everyone to read it for themselves.

I can't say off the top of my head if the souls who have previously died is related to the rapture.

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rickynottricky 3 points ago +3 / -0

Jesus said many would use His name and know Him not.

Christianity is rife with Pharisees, it's an easy way to make a buck.

Very few of the thousands of priests, preachers, or pastors, are fighting satan.

People who think they will rapture out and don't need to fight are in for an awakening.

Jesus said to pick up your cross and follow Him.

God uses people to do His bidding Christian or not, and people can change.

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stray502 3 points ago +3 / -0

They sound brainwashed if they think he is a bad guy. Ask them why they think that, you should be able to by now rebuke anything they say. If they are Christians they have to know God works through people and Trump is one of those people.

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ArmyLady 3 points ago +3 / -0

the photo of the pastors praying over him

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Lance-White 3 points ago +3 / -0

Your "Christian" friends sound like they are dispensational aka water baptists. Water baptism ended with John the Baptist, was only intended for the house of Israel back then and ushered in the Christ which under the covenant of Grace ushered in Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Current water baptism is a heresy. Dispensation doctrine has it's roots originating from the Schofield Bible and Darbyism. They also believe that the fake Jews (Edomites) are God's chosen people and their end time prophecy is practically changed on a weekly basis to accommodate their predictions of the Lord's return.

The confusion of their lack of support for President Trump is well documented, holding him to a standard they don't even come close to. Have they criticized Joe Biden? How about Obama and big Mike? Mike Pence? I bet they love him.

Do they hold everyone else to the same scrutiny? When they need a plumber? An electrician? When they shop for groceries? A carpenter? I highly advise staying away from Baptist churches.

Know God's Word. Get rid of all modern bibles and read from the 1611 King James. Just appropriately apply the words JUDEANS and JUDAHITES where they belong where you see the word IEWE which was replaced with the word Jew in the 1700's then everything fits and makes sense.

Remember when you read a Bible that has the word Jew, Satan did that. They want you to believe that they are Judahites (Jacob) when they are nothing but Judeans (Esau).

Interesting the word "Semite" originated in the 1700's as well.

The more I personally know and learn about the true doctrine in scripture I have a pretty good template I can place over any church, any person, any group of people and any country to see how well things line up. I have been fooled way too many times in my life.

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ThePowerOfPrayer 2 points ago +2 / -0

Water baptism ended with John the Baptist, was only intended for the house of Israel back then and ushered in the Christ which under the covenant of Grace ushered in Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Current water baptism is a heresy.

I think you need to reread the Book of Acts, specifically this passage.

Acts 10:44-48

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

The uncircumcised Gentiles were baptized by the Holy Spirit and still got water baptisms afterwards. The Holy Spirit called them to do so, no doubt.


I agree with your statements about Dispensationalism, but you're missing a major part of its history, which is its origins and the reason for its development in the first place.

John Nelson Darby of the Plymouth Brethren was indeed the first Protestant to codify Dispensationalism, and the Scofield Bible is indeed one of the main reasons the doctrine became widespread.

With that being said, Darby was merely a Protestant front man.

Francisco Ribera, a Jesuit priest, developed an interpretation of Bible prophecy as part of his Counter-Reformation efforts. His sole goal was to destroy the Protestant reformation teachings which declared the Pope is the antichrist and the Roman Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon.

Fellow Jesuit priest Cardinal Robert Bellarmine picked up where Ribera left off, and similarly, Manuel Lacunza grabbed the baton from Bellarmine.

Lacunza died a year after Darby began preaching Dispensationalism, and there's a reason no Jesuit refined Lacunza's work even further.

Wiki's a terrible source for most things, but they got this right-

Manuel Diaz Lacunza S.J. (born Santiago, Chile, 1731; died Imola, Italy around June 18, 1801) was a Jesuit priest who used the pen-name Juan Josafat Ben-Ezra for his main work on the interpretation of the prophecies of the Bible.

AND

Following the book's publication in London, the Rev Edward Irving, founder of the Catholic Apostolic Church, came across Lacunza's work and was so impressed by it that he studied Castilian for the sole purpose of translating it into English. In 1827 his two-volume translation was published under the title "The Coming of the Messiah".

https://archive.ph/V6zQT

Reverend Edward Irving translated Lacunza's book "The Coming of the Messiah in Glory and Majesty" into English.

Based on the preface to Irving's translation, one learns Irving was fooled by Lacunza's Jewish pen name and believed him to be a Converted Jew. It's highly likely the fact Pope Leo XII placed Juan Josafat Ben-Ezra's book on the Index of Prohibited Books also lowered his guard and prevented him from doing his due diligence on the true origin of the book.

Darby relied heavily on Irving's translation and introduced Jesuit error into the Protestant world, either knowingly or unknowingly. We do know Darby thought about joining the Anglican Church, which is very close to Roman Catholicism in most matters.


I find it interesting you mention "the covenant of Grace" while simultaneously speaking out against Dispensationalism.

What's the difference between the "the covenant of Grace" and the "Dispensation of grace?" Do you prescribe to the three covenant theory, of works, faith, and redemption?

If I had to guess, you're either a member of the Reformed church or a Calvinist, especially due to your position on water baptism, but correct me if I'm wrong.

I disagree with your statements about "the covenant of Grace."

Grace isn't strictly a New Testament thing-

Genesis 6:8

But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

Exodus 33:17

And the Lord said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken: for thou hast found grace in my sight, and I know thee by name.

Jeremiah 31:2

Thus saith the Lord, The people which were left of the sword found grace in the wilderness; even Israel, when I went to cause him to rest.

Repentance for forgiveness of sins was just as much a part of the Jewish religion as it is in true Christianity today.

We need to get back to the Word and pray for guidance from the Holy Spirit. There's a lifetime of study awaiting and we'll never understand it all until after the end of the world. We can't rely on preachers from any denomination and we need to test their sermons according to the Word just like the Bereans did.

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Lance-White 1 point ago +1 / -0

No I'm just a Spirit filled believer. A truth seeker.

The book of Acts is the history of the early church. It's not necessarily doctrine. In it we find growing pains and mistakes made. Peter was criticized by Paul because he was telling the heathen they needed to be circumcised.

Then trying to carry on the ritual of water baptism that was terminated with John the Baptist when the Christ showed up. Later he wrote this...

KJV standard

1 Peter 3:21

“The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:”

Baptism means to immerse and could mean anything. Immerse in water, immerse in mud, immerse in the Word of God and this case Peter is clearly referring to Baptism of the Spirit. (Not the putting away of the filth of the flesh i.e. water)

Also Paul in his epistles hardly brought up water baptism. Only a thing of the past. Yesterday's news.

To have a baptismal in a church is abject idolatry because they can't spin it any other way than it's required for salvation when salvation is a gift of God and not of works. We are chosen by the will of God.

Now to those who practice Judaism. Judaism is often a satanic cult of Baal doctrine, child sacrifice, Babylonian Talmud and antichrist.

Repentance is summed up nicely by Charles Spurgeon.

"Repentance grows as faith grows. Do not make any mistake about it; repentance is not a thing of days and weeks, a temporary penance to be got over as fast as possible! No; it is the grace of a lifetime, like faith itself. God's little children repent, and so do the young men and the fathers. Repentance is the inseparable companion of faith".

Spurgeon on God's elect and Calvinism. This is where dispensationals get tangled up. You can't go soul winning because it's God that draws and saves his elect. Typical water baptists calling names that if you believe the scripture you are a Calvinist or Pentacostal if you believe in Baptism of the Spirit but the Jews are God's chosen people. Pulease .

Spurgeon..

"And I have my own private opinion, that there is no such thing as preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism. Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else. I do not believe we can preach the gospel, if we do not preach justification by faith without works; nor unless we preach the sovereignty of God in his dispensation of grace; nor unless we exalt the electing, unchangeable, eternal, immutable, conquering love of Jehovah; nor, I think, can we preach the gospel, unless we base it upon the peculiar redemption which Christ made for his elect and chosen people; nor can I comprehend a gospel which lets saints fall away after they are called, and suffers the children of God to be burned in the fires of damnation, after having believed. Such a gospel I abhor. The gospel of the Bible is not such a gospel as that. We preach Christ and him crucified in a different fashion, and to all gainsayers we reply, ‘We have not so learned Christ.’ [Spurgeon’s Sermons, vol. I (Baker Books, reprinted 2007), 88-89.]"

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DontTreadOnPede 1 point ago +1 / -0

I have just been learning about the Scofield bible/Jesuit stuff involving idolizing the modern day nation of "Israel" and dispensational teachings.

Does anyone have any references to theological teachings/writings from before Scofield/Ribera/Lacunza that dealt with these same topics but from a more biblical/true perspective?

What did people believe about these things before Ribera/Lacunza/Scofield?

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rickynottricky 2 points ago +2 / -0

Great comment.

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Lance-White 1 point ago +1 / -0

Thank you. I might add that with God all things are possible. If you have family members or friends you are trying to reach, inject some wisdom of God in your conversation with them without being too preachy and pray always for them.

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Trumpette2020 3 points ago +3 / -0

Kim clement might help?

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TeaPartySon 2 points ago +2 / -0

Glad I didn't go into the Seminary as I planned and instead became an Iron Worker. Apprentices were much easier to train than a flock. so much disagreement it is amazing that we agree on anything. GEOTUS MUST BE A SUPERGENIUS

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MemeToDeath2021 2 points ago +2 / -0

Encourage them to support Biden and Dems. Afterall, things are much better under Biden, right? Lots of obvious things to compare. Plus Trump is really sidelined and irrelevant from optics standpoint until he announces 2024 run next year. Not sure they need to like or support Trump until 2024.

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SoMuchWinning45 2 points ago +2 / -0

Q is entirely different, but why do they dislike Trump? Are they able to give any real reason?

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swampbeast [S] 1 point ago +1 / -0

Hi there, basically they just say he is one of the elite and any symbolism they find that remotely looks Satanic they assume he is involved somehow. And if anything was going to happen he would have done it by now (Trump)

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deleted 3 points ago +3 / -0
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SoMuchWinning45 2 points ago +2 / -0

What symbolism from Trump? That's ridiculous

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Apterodactyl 1 point ago +1 / -0

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/parisians--657173770597453624/ https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-24/zaha-hadid-s-666-fifth-avenue-embodies-the-trump-era

http://www.thehypertexts.com/donald%20trump%20666%20mark%20of%20the%20beast.htm

I don't care if I get downvoted to oblivion, but the satanic symbolism surrounding him is beyond substantial, so your friends are absolutely right that he is involved.

Matthew 7:16

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DrMcCoy 2 points ago +2 / -0

My Catholic friends and priests know about Francis, the plan to destroy religion, the NWO, child trafficking, etc.

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Bigly2020 2 points ago +2 / -0

Sounds like they need a well groomed politician man that slithers and crawls to just the right vibe man. That’s what’s most important. We need someone who’s been around for decades yeah that’s it

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TheHumanPrimer 2 points ago +2 / -0

They also believe the Adam and Eve story. If true, then without incest we wouldn’t be here now would we?

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citypeople 2 points ago +2 / -0

Agree with them where you can.

Like Trump is rude and uncouth. Don't try to argue that he isn't. This is generally the issue that bothers Christians (who aren't progressive Christians).

But it may have been necessary to be that way to fix things.

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MAGA_mandalorian 6 points ago +6 / -0

Honestly I prefer someone who shoots me straight rather than beating around the bush and making me feel good with eloquent words. The devil has a silver tongue and speaks as if he's making beautiful music, but he's the father of lies. We needed a brash Chad like trump to remind us of the hard reality we live in. And have the cahones to get things done as well as expose the beautiful lies we've eaten up since we were conceived. No amount of fancy wording is going to save us. Body, mind, or soul. My trust lies ultimately in the Lord my God, and through His will I can see the plan unfolding. The great awakening! All hail the King of all Kings!

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citypeople 2 points ago +2 / -0

But I agree that Trump is rude and uncouth. They do too. I didn't say lie. I said agree where you can.

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MAGA_mandalorian 1 point ago +1 / -0

Oh me too. But I'd rather have some brass balls running my country over a lifetime politician and kiddie diddler

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citypeople 2 points ago +2 / -0

Right. And I think that resonates - at least it has for me - after I stop being defensive about who Trump is, agree with them, and then point that out.

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MAGA_mandalorian 1 point ago +1 / -0

Same here. He's not conventional, but conventional means have gotten us to this point, so it's time to switch some things up

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MaxdOut 3 points ago +3 / -0

Agreed. My tactic has always been:

Judge every man not by what he says, but by what he does. Trump has a fabulous track record of positive actions.

I like to use this analogy:

Would you rather have great surgeon who is a bit of an arrogant ass and has no bed side manner, or a smooth talking incompetent hack that leaves you disabled or dead?

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Surfsup 2 points ago +2 / -0

When they claim he's unstable or mean or the tweets (un presidential) ask them if he's unpresidential enough to create peace in the middle east, or n Korea, or pull us out of the Paris shithole deal, or how he predicted Biden would end our oil industry, create inflation and come for our guns as they spread pedophilia and import migrants we pay for? How are this things better?

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SocialismSucks69 2 points ago +2 / -0

Show them all of the Bible verses this site has and then tell them it’s from this site. They’ll mull over it and if they’re honest with themselves they will pray over it. Always give people a chance to critically think of something. Its the best you can do with such a defensive psychology set up for themselves you are just avoiding triggers and punching holes in their world view a little at a time.

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Mycovidfeelslikeacol 0 points ago +3 / -3

He really pushed vaccine. He really stands by Israel. He hires people like Barr, Pence, Bolton, plus 20 others. To be honest people are really certain he's coming to save them with no real proof. Mainstream media hates him so he has that going for him.

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swampbeast [S] 3 points ago +3 / -0

Yes that was another thing, that he pushed the vaccine

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deleted 2 points ago +2 / -0
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cablez 0 points ago +4 / -4

Who cares????? Why you go so hard for a man you do not even know. Like really know? You know Trump on TV. But you dont ACTUALLY know him. Also the man is a fucking Billionaire. He doesnt need us to go to bat for him..........Why waste your time, energy, and efforts trying to sway peoples OPINIONS.

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InfidelCastro11 0 points ago +1 / -1

Two more weeks, right? You're not secretly winning. Stop with this shit.