I was sort of unprincipled random (but generally "soft left" like be nice/subjectivist type stuff respectively) grab bag politically/philosophically in college (early-mid 90s). Combination of libertarian friends and an Objectivist who got me into Rand fixed this.
(Edit: the irony of libertarianism and Objectivism being somewhat at odds is not lost on me btw.)
How would libertarianism and objectivism be at odds? Aren't they basically the same thing? I think Objectivism places a stronger emphasis on capitalism, but still wanting as little government as possible.
Rand was "not a fan." Here's a couple excerpts on the topic....
(Also note, I say "somewhat" because a) I don't necessarily agree with her take fully (sort of, this would take a lot longer to explain than I have) and b) I have my own gripes with libertarians (e.g. open borders/trade when the reality is those don't make sense).)
Edit: One concrete example I have is aforementioned libertarian college friends, the one I eventually got back in touch with (he found me on LinkedIn after some time), basically is moderate Republican who thinks the answer is not someone like Trump but a moderate so we can all get just along. (I broke off communications when he started bloviating about Trump and his "cult of personality" and all that.)
Thanks. Saved to favorites. I've always said that conservatives aren't libertarians because, as covid private business mask and vax mandates displayed, occasionally conservative oversight is needed to protect individual rights from infringment by other private parties. We can't always just choose not to associate or do business with such. Yet we can ally with libertarians on a great many points.
Yeah the thing is, there are a couple areas where conservatives need to learn from libertarians (e.g. drug war) BUT there are way more areas that are opposite (libertarian policies would give the game away so liberty would be gone). One position we can progress from, so we have to get to that position first....
The open borders shit is one of the big things that soured me on Libertarianism, if you don't defend your borders you don't have a country. I gave up on it entirely when I realized that leaving others alone is self-destructive when they won't leave you alone and the left will just consume all if unopposed, it felt like the Libertarian Party was designed to make people into pushovers.
Yeah basically (as Rand observes) some are anarchists - well that's the fastest way to tribalism/statism. Then the border thing, 100%. The other big one for me was that open trade also sounds like a good idea, but no one wants that to be fair either, and it's never in the United States favor - something DJT actually did/will do something about.
I was sort of unprincipled random (but generally "soft left" like be nice/subjectivist type stuff respectively) grab bag politically/philosophically in college (early-mid 90s). Combination of libertarian friends and an Objectivist who got me into Rand fixed this.
(Edit: the irony of libertarianism and Objectivism being somewhat at odds is not lost on me btw.)
How would libertarianism and objectivism be at odds? Aren't they basically the same thing? I think Objectivism places a stronger emphasis on capitalism, but still wanting as little government as possible.
Rand was "not a fan." Here's a couple excerpts on the topic....
(Also note, I say "somewhat" because a) I don't necessarily agree with her take fully (sort of, this would take a lot longer to explain than I have) and b) I have my own gripes with libertarians (e.g. open borders/trade when the reality is those don't make sense).)
http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/libertarians.html
Edit: One concrete example I have is aforementioned libertarian college friends, the one I eventually got back in touch with (he found me on LinkedIn after some time), basically is moderate Republican who thinks the answer is not someone like Trump but a moderate so we can all get just along. (I broke off communications when he started bloviating about Trump and his "cult of personality" and all that.)
Thanks. Saved to favorites. I've always said that conservatives aren't libertarians because, as covid private business mask and vax mandates displayed, occasionally conservative oversight is needed to protect individual rights from infringment by other private parties. We can't always just choose not to associate or do business with such. Yet we can ally with libertarians on a great many points.
Yeah the thing is, there are a couple areas where conservatives need to learn from libertarians (e.g. drug war) BUT there are way more areas that are opposite (libertarian policies would give the game away so liberty would be gone). One position we can progress from, so we have to get to that position first....
The open borders shit is one of the big things that soured me on Libertarianism, if you don't defend your borders you don't have a country. I gave up on it entirely when I realized that leaving others alone is self-destructive when they won't leave you alone and the left will just consume all if unopposed, it felt like the Libertarian Party was designed to make people into pushovers.
Yeah basically (as Rand observes) some are anarchists - well that's the fastest way to tribalism/statism. Then the border thing, 100%. The other big one for me was that open trade also sounds like a good idea, but no one wants that to be fair either, and it's never in the United States favor - something DJT actually did/will do something about.