North of the Dead Sea. I was following an archeologist years ago who was convinced that S&G was IN the Dead Sea, and hired a submersible to map the bottom ... but now they found evidence of a meteor strike.
I don't think the Roman siege of Jerusalem was ever in doubt, it's been written about by other contemporaries, such as Tacitus and Josephus. The Biblical account was not really in question.
Actually the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple is not in the Bible. What this does prove as a side note is that the New Testament books were written BEFORE this happened or they would have surely included this historical fact in some of their writings. The Romans, after the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem, killed over a million Jews and deported the rest out of the area and sold them into slavery. They changed the name of Judah to Palestine, after the arch enemy of Israel the Philistines. Side note in history. It was Israel for over 1600 years before the Romans named it Palestine!
Correct. The title of the thread and the article was talking about the 2nd Temple being destroyed in 70AD and it is not in the Bible proving that the new Testament was written before it happened. (except for Revelation which was in the 90's and it was strictly what Jesus told John to write, no more and no less)!
Josephus was said to be the only one not fighting to the death in a fight, and was kept alive to tell the story. This is a propaganda technique by any standard.
An odd way to tell the story, using your enemy.
So in effect, Josephus became the voice of his own opposition, a Roman religion.
The MSM of his day. Note archaeologists now publishing 'findings' in the press, rather than in science journals.
We are at another crossroads with science and religion at odds with one another, but now they want to dance in each other's skin, rather than to come together in Truth.
Digging in the ground to prove God doesn't seem like religion or science.
The problem with all history is past illiteracy in many places and the widespread habit of totally wiping out enemies whenever possible, so that, for instance, in the Middle East we know there were many tribes and cities which are mentioned once or twice and otherwise are unknown. Punctuated of course by occasional disasters and migrations. So what we know is conjectured in many instances from a few tokens, interpreted through our own values and the scanty knowledge handed down by survivors of destruction. Josephus was biased in favor of Rome but sometimes he's all there is to go by. Archeology turns up an occasional new token to add to this sketchy picture.
Josephus as 'all there is to go by' is due to destruction of alternate histories.
As you intimate, history is written by the victor. Josephus as self-professed exception.
The history of archaeology is rife with fraud, so one has to use a grain of salt.
Or sometimes a pillar.
Salt here being a cross-referencing, whenever possible.
J.R.R. Tolkien, being a multi-lingual scholar of ancient languages and fan of histories, became part of a team to sort and parcel out these conflicting, shredded histories and compile them into a composite that might more accurately reflect 'true' history as they had a need to know and knew that what had been handed down was a patchwork of quilted 'tales' used as propaganda in its time.
The results of this 'Fellowship' stunned the team of translators/linguists and they made a pact that the last one living should tell the world, albeit in fantasy fiction form. Like the histories before them.
Tolkien is an interesting example of a historical something I've noticed, which is pantheon similarities. There are the Aesir, the Greco-Roman pantheon, the main gods of Hinduism and Daoism, the Tuatha de Dannan, the pantheon recycled under many names in the Middle East. They have a lot in common: number range of members, family relations with each other, one authoritarian figure who is usually a sky (weather) god, lower level classes of spiritual or superhuman beings, intercourse with mortals both social and physical, mostly neutral toward us with one or two very helpful, mostly adherent to a moral code but there is always one stinker who acts chaotically to upset things (Loki, Set). Tolkien's mythos is very similar. Illuvitar creates all things with song (the Word by which all things were made, the sacred sounds Aum and Hum of tantric Buddhism). He makes an elevated class including Morgoth who starts the whole epic of problems. It all reminds me a lot of the story of the Watchers who spoiled things, Loki who was responsible for Fenris and the Great Snake strangling the World Tree. I was actually a little bemused at why he would go to the immense effort of creating this cosmology and make it so familiar.
Yes, you've hit on a couple of very important points.
The Joker as Wild Card - Jeckyl, Jackle, Jack, Jester
Batman taking the place of Superman as a sort of 'dark side', and then the Joker gaining predominance in the Marvel pantheon is a huge tell of where things stand.
They fear and respect (through fear of) the Wild Card as it has great power in the game. So they dance in its skin, trying to control it with magic as the shaman.
Satire as satyr.....the joker's joke is a powerful instantaneous blow.
The Fool. Obliviously dancing on the edge of a cliff with lil Nipper at his heel. (dog comm)
"Fool me twice, shame on .....shame me....won't get fooled again." W. Bush
This is the Green Man of the Tarot, the Zero card.
it is much misunderstood.
It's mirror, is the Trump Card which is 'legit', not a created 'wild' card. It acts like the wild card when it shows up, taking the field if the wild card isn't played in perfect time/order when allowed in the dealer's deck.
The importance of mythos as descriptions of all thing, including mental and psychic processes, embodied in literal tales in order to subliminate in self analysis/recognition.
These truths were then believed literally by many and thereby became weaponized socially as a form of taxation and control.
Carl Jung and Joseph Campbell's works show example of how universal these concepts were and still are, even if not seen by most.
Jung considered 'the gods' to be symbolic archetypes of mental and psychic processes and a close perusal should prove that this was the intent of the system's authors from it's inception.
When seen in this fashion, comparative theology is possible and Light gained.
Like all 'science', there is good and bad depending on the finding and the method.
Archaeology without anthropology is like reading with one eye. Anthropology without historic backing is suspect. History without factual backing is suspect.
Stories about histories are suspect.
Testing truths are putting the sword into the fire. If impurities are burned away, the steel 'aligns' and what comes out is stronger. The lesson of this site.
Josephus covered for the civil war between the gnostic and agnostic elements in Judea and elsewhere, and the subsequent takeover by Rome.
To say he had 'skin in the game' would be an understatement.
A Flavian was being set up to become 'the Messiah.' in order to co-opt a growing messianic movement. A new age religion would be needed. The word 'catholic' means universal.
Jewish historian, born A.D. 37, at Jerusalem; died about 101. He belonged to a distinguished priestly family, whose paternal ancestors he himself traces back five generations; his mother's family claimed descent from the Machabeans.....
He also made himself fully acquainted with and tried the leading politico-religious Jewish parties of his age — the Essenes, Pharisees, and Sadducees.
**
Impressed by the outward importance of the Pharisees and hoping to secure through them a position of influence, he attached himself to their party at the age of nineteen, although he shared neither their religious nor political views.** He went to Rome in the year 64 with the object of procuring from Nero the release of some imprisoned Jewish priests, who were friends of his. He succeeded in winning the favour of Poppæa Sabina, the emperor's consort, and through her influence gained his cause. But he was dazzled by the brilliant court life in the metropolis of the world, that he became ever more estranged from the spirit of strict Judaism, considering its struggle against paganism as useless. After his return to Jerusalem, the great Jewish revolt broke out in the year 66. Like most of the aristocratic Jews, Josephus at first discountenanced the rebellion of his countrymen, goaded into activity by their enslaved condition and outraged religious sentiments; when, however, fortune seemed to favour the insurgents, Josephus like the rest of the priestly nobility joined them, and was chosen by the Sanhedrin at Jerusalem to be commander-in-chief in Galilee. As such he established in every city throughout the country a council of judges, the members of which were recruited from those who shared his political views. He guided the diplomatic negotiations as well as the military enterprises with prudence and astuteness. In the beginning the Jews were successful, but later when the Roman General Vespasian advanced with the main army from Antioch to Galilee, burning and murdering, the insurgents either fled or sought shelter in their fortresses. For six weeks Josephus and the boldest spirits among the insurgents defended themselves in the almost impregnable fortress of Jotapata. In the summer of 67, the garrison being now exhausted from lack of water and other necessaries, the Romans stormed the citadel; most of the patriots were put to the sword, but **Josephus escaped the massacre by hiding in an inaccessible cistern, and emerged only after receiving an assurance that his life would be spared. **Brought before the victorious general, he sought with great shrewness to ingratiate himself with Vespasian, foretelling his elevation, as well as that of his son Titus, to the imperial dignity. Vespasian, however, kept him as a prisoner, and it was only in the year 69, after he had actually become emperor, that he restored to Josephus his liberty.
As a freedman of Vespasian, Josephus assumed in accordance with the Roman custom the former's family name of Flavianus. He accompanied the emperor as far as Egypt, when the latter had handled over to his son the prosecution of the Jewish War, but then joined the retinue of Titus, and was an eyewitness of the destruction of the Holy City and her Temple.
I love these types of article. OF course the Bible is a historical account.
There was the Red Sea crossing chariots, that had video evidence and is now hotly disputed. One can find articles from both sides of the isle.
For:
https://apologiaway1.wordpress.com/2021/06/13/chariot-wheels-found-at-bottom-of-red-sea/
Against:
https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/28601/has-a-chariot-army-been-found-at-the-bottom-of-the-red-sea
We had a Sodom and Gomorrah dig the other day: https://greatawakening.win/p/15IrPfrI7t/sodom-and-gomorrah-found/c/
North of the Dead Sea. I was following an archeologist years ago who was convinced that S&G was IN the Dead Sea, and hired a submersible to map the bottom ... but now they found evidence of a meteor strike.
Aah look at the knowledge. Nice thank you.
The scorched top of Mount Sinai
https://jabalmaqla.com/blackened-peak/
I don't think the Roman siege of Jerusalem was ever in doubt, it's been written about by other contemporaries, such as Tacitus and Josephus. The Biblical account was not really in question.
Yes. It's in the historical archives elsewhere. I don't believe it's fake.
Actually the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple is not in the Bible. What this does prove as a side note is that the New Testament books were written BEFORE this happened or they would have surely included this historical fact in some of their writings. The Romans, after the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem, killed over a million Jews and deported the rest out of the area and sold them into slavery. They changed the name of Judah to Palestine, after the arch enemy of Israel the Philistines. Side note in history. It was Israel for over 1600 years before the Romans named it Palestine!
I think you are talking about the sacking the 2nd time. The first was by Babylon. Romans come later which is the 2nd time.
Correct. The title of the thread and the article was talking about the 2nd Temple being destroyed in 70AD and it is not in the Bible proving that the new Testament was written before it happened. (except for Revelation which was in the 90's and it was strictly what Jesus told John to write, no more and no less)!
Thanks for the info.
Also read Luke 4: 4-7. These verses add to the Matt. account.
Thank you. I got that one.
I just read through from Gen to I Cor. I am happy to report. LOL
Josephus was said to be the only one not fighting to the death in a fight, and was kept alive to tell the story. This is a propaganda technique by any standard. An odd way to tell the story, using your enemy.
So in effect, Josephus became the voice of his own opposition, a Roman religion.
The MSM of his day. Note archaeologists now publishing 'findings' in the press, rather than in science journals.
We are at another crossroads with science and religion at odds with one another, but now they want to dance in each other's skin, rather than to come together in Truth.
Digging in the ground to prove God doesn't seem like religion or science.
There are more likely places to 'dig'.
The problem with all history is past illiteracy in many places and the widespread habit of totally wiping out enemies whenever possible, so that, for instance, in the Middle East we know there were many tribes and cities which are mentioned once or twice and otherwise are unknown. Punctuated of course by occasional disasters and migrations. So what we know is conjectured in many instances from a few tokens, interpreted through our own values and the scanty knowledge handed down by survivors of destruction. Josephus was biased in favor of Rome but sometimes he's all there is to go by. Archeology turns up an occasional new token to add to this sketchy picture.
Josephus as 'all there is to go by' is due to destruction of alternate histories. As you intimate, history is written by the victor. Josephus as self-professed exception.
The history of archaeology is rife with fraud, so one has to use a grain of salt.
Or sometimes a pillar.
Salt here being a cross-referencing, whenever possible.
J.R.R. Tolkien, being a multi-lingual scholar of ancient languages and fan of histories, became part of a team to sort and parcel out these conflicting, shredded histories and compile them into a composite that might more accurately reflect 'true' history as they had a need to know and knew that what had been handed down was a patchwork of quilted 'tales' used as propaganda in its time.
The results of this 'Fellowship' stunned the team of translators/linguists and they made a pact that the last one living should tell the world, albeit in fantasy fiction form. Like the histories before them.
Tolkien is an interesting example of a historical something I've noticed, which is pantheon similarities. There are the Aesir, the Greco-Roman pantheon, the main gods of Hinduism and Daoism, the Tuatha de Dannan, the pantheon recycled under many names in the Middle East. They have a lot in common: number range of members, family relations with each other, one authoritarian figure who is usually a sky (weather) god, lower level classes of spiritual or superhuman beings, intercourse with mortals both social and physical, mostly neutral toward us with one or two very helpful, mostly adherent to a moral code but there is always one stinker who acts chaotically to upset things (Loki, Set). Tolkien's mythos is very similar. Illuvitar creates all things with song (the Word by which all things were made, the sacred sounds Aum and Hum of tantric Buddhism). He makes an elevated class including Morgoth who starts the whole epic of problems. It all reminds me a lot of the story of the Watchers who spoiled things, Loki who was responsible for Fenris and the Great Snake strangling the World Tree. I was actually a little bemused at why he would go to the immense effort of creating this cosmology and make it so familiar.
Yes, you've hit on a couple of very important points.
Batman taking the place of Superman as a sort of 'dark side', and then the Joker gaining predominance in the Marvel pantheon is a huge tell of where things stand.
They fear and respect (through fear of) the Wild Card as it has great power in the game. So they dance in its skin, trying to control it with magic as the shaman. Satire as satyr.....the joker's joke is a powerful instantaneous blow. The Fool. Obliviously dancing on the edge of a cliff with lil Nipper at his heel. (dog comm)
"Fool me twice, shame on .....shame me....won't get fooled again." W. Bush
This is the Green Man of the Tarot, the Zero card.
it is much misunderstood.
It's mirror, is the Trump Card which is 'legit', not a created 'wild' card. It acts like the wild card when it shows up, taking the field if the wild card isn't played in perfect time/order when allowed in the dealer's deck.
These truths were then believed literally by many and thereby became weaponized socially as a form of taxation and control.
Carl Jung and Joseph Campbell's works show example of how universal these concepts were and still are, even if not seen by most.
Jung considered 'the gods' to be symbolic archetypes of mental and psychic processes and a close perusal should prove that this was the intent of the system's authors from it's inception.
When seen in this fashion, comparative theology is possible and Light gained.
https://www.scribd.com/document/398575567/230403079-Jesus-Christ-Sun-of-God-Ancient-Cosmology-and-Early-Christian-Symbolism-by-David-R-Fideler-pdf
Do you disapprove of archeology?
What about the Noah's Ark dig?
Like all 'science', there is good and bad depending on the finding and the method. Archaeology without anthropology is like reading with one eye. Anthropology without historic backing is suspect. History without factual backing is suspect. Stories about histories are suspect.
Testing truths are putting the sword into the fire. If impurities are burned away, the steel 'aligns' and what comes out is stronger. The lesson of this site.
You think this might be fake news?
Josephus or the dig?
Both are attempts to 'prove' a story.
Josephus covered for the civil war between the gnostic and agnostic elements in Judea and elsewhere, and the subsequent takeover by Rome.
To say he had 'skin in the game' would be an understatement.
A Flavian was being set up to become 'the Messiah.' in order to co-opt a growing messianic movement. A new age religion would be needed. The word 'catholic' means universal.
Jewish historian, born A.D. 37, at Jerusalem; died about 101. He belonged to a distinguished priestly family, whose paternal ancestors he himself traces back five generations; his mother's family claimed descent from the Machabeans.....
He also made himself fully acquainted with and tried the leading politico-religious Jewish parties of his age — the Essenes, Pharisees, and Sadducees. ** Impressed by the outward importance of the Pharisees and hoping to secure through them a position of influence, he attached himself to their party at the age of nineteen, although he shared neither their religious nor political views.** He went to Rome in the year 64 with the object of procuring from Nero the release of some imprisoned Jewish priests, who were friends of his. He succeeded in winning the favour of Poppæa Sabina, the emperor's consort, and through her influence gained his cause. But he was dazzled by the brilliant court life in the metropolis of the world, that he became ever more estranged from the spirit of strict Judaism, considering its struggle against paganism as useless. After his return to Jerusalem, the great Jewish revolt broke out in the year 66. Like most of the aristocratic Jews, Josephus at first discountenanced the rebellion of his countrymen, goaded into activity by their enslaved condition and outraged religious sentiments; when, however, fortune seemed to favour the insurgents, Josephus like the rest of the priestly nobility joined them, and was chosen by the Sanhedrin at Jerusalem to be commander-in-chief in Galilee. As such he established in every city throughout the country a council of judges, the members of which were recruited from those who shared his political views. He guided the diplomatic negotiations as well as the military enterprises with prudence and astuteness. In the beginning the Jews were successful, but later when the Roman General Vespasian advanced with the main army from Antioch to Galilee, burning and murdering, the insurgents either fled or sought shelter in their fortresses. For six weeks Josephus and the boldest spirits among the insurgents defended themselves in the almost impregnable fortress of Jotapata. In the summer of 67, the garrison being now exhausted from lack of water and other necessaries, the Romans stormed the citadel; most of the patriots were put to the sword, but **Josephus escaped the massacre by hiding in an inaccessible cistern, and emerged only after receiving an assurance that his life would be spared. **Brought before the victorious general, he sought with great shrewness to ingratiate himself with Vespasian, foretelling his elevation, as well as that of his son Titus, to the imperial dignity. Vespasian, however, kept him as a prisoner, and it was only in the year 69, after he had actually become emperor, that he restored to Josephus his liberty.
As a freedman of Vespasian, Josephus assumed in accordance with the Roman custom the former's family name of Flavianus. He accompanied the emperor as far as Egypt, when the latter had handled over to his son the prosecution of the Jewish War, but then joined the retinue of Titus, and was an eyewitness of the destruction of the Holy City and her Temple.
The dig? Do you think it's fake?
I heard about the Sodom and Gomarrah dig and the documentation seems very legit (with all kinds of literature). I believe that one.
You're living in Sodom now.
No need to dig to look for it.
It's only one example historically.
Thanks for the history lesson also.
Glad to help
My KJV isn't dusty
Couldn't read anything but "The Message" because English is my third language.
Kinda phallic looking ...... .
Very true.