See my other comments in this thread. Virginia was in a state of rebellion, so a government purporting itself to be the legitimate VA government in exile, loyal to the Constitution, relocated to an area of the state that was not in rebellion. It was this legislature and governor that the federal government recognized as being legitimate. The Western counties petitioned this government to leave VA, and it was approved (10th Amendment allows states to let counties leave the state). Said counties, now as territories within the USA applied to the federal government for statehood, and it was approved.
Though it required some extensive legal gymnastics, technically the logic worked without violating the Constitution.
Thank You for the 1984 on that, but I'm actually a real History Buff, and live in West (ern) Virginia....
There wasn't any ""Rebellion"" in Virginia, there was an uprising or better said and movement by/of the FreeMasons, against the Valid Virginian Govt....
1861, Virginia has a convention on whether to secede from the Union
the election of convention delegates drew 145,700 voters who elected, by county, 152 representatives. Thirty of these delegates were secessionists, thirty were unionists, and ninety-two were moderates who were not clearly identified with either of the first two groups. Nevertheless, advocates of immediate secession were clearly outnumbered.
Thereafter, the secession convention voted on April 17, provisionally, to secede, on the condition of ratification by a statewide referendum.
Virginia's ordinance of secession was ratified in a referendum held on May 23, 1861, by a vote of 132,201 to 37,451.
Later that year, "West Virginians" are deciding to secede from Virginia
On June 13, Carlile introduced to the convention "A Declaration of the People of Virginia." The document declared that under the Virginia Declaration of Rights, any substantial change in the form of state government had to be approved by a referendum. Therefore, since the Secession Convention had not been convened by a referendum, all of its acts--including the Ordinance of Secession--were illegal and void. It also declared the existing government in Richmond void and called for the reorganization of the state government on the grounds that Virginia's secession had effectively vacated all state offices. On June 19, delegates approved this plan unanimously.
The next day, June 20, the convention selected new officers of the Virginia state government (usually called the Restored Government of Virginia to avoid confusion with the secessionist government). Francis Pierpont of Marion County was elected governor. On June 25, the convention adjourned until August 6. ""
Shortened Legal view at link above....
There was a PDF that was written by a Female, and it really got into the entire Constitutional Law side of it without mucking everything up with Stupid References to other States and obscure ""Look at this"" references, she simply stuck to the whole Subject of Constitutionality, and it all came down to a SEMICOLON, which is where the fight against the SECOND Amend., began, and we are still fighting against due to a SEMICOLON....
I'll keep looking for it, IF I find it, I'll post it....
Cool. If we want to play the epenis game, I'm an actual historian with two advanced degrees in the field and specialization in the Founding Era through Reconstruction. So... yeah. Whoopie.
You do realize that what you posted actually affirms what I've been saying, right?
There wasn't any ""Rebellion"" in Virginia, there was an uprising or better said and movement by/of the FreeMasons, against the Valid Virginian Govt [...] (usually called the Restored Government of Virginia to avoid confusion with the secessionist government).
Quite literally, there was rebellion, at least in the eastern counties. One group claimed to be the legitimate secessionist government, while the other claimed to be the legitimate government loyal to the USA. The latter was legally the lawful government and they relocated the capitol to the west as the rebels had seized Richmond.
This legitimate government agreed to let the western counties that would become WV, secede from VA (valid under the 10th Amendment) and then those counties applied for statehood and it was granted by Congress. After the rebellion was subdued, the lawful government of VA was restored to Richmond.
Yes. West Virginia exists. It was constitutionally done, albeit requiring some unsual legal gymnastics.
It is unusual Mental gymnastics, along with some serious Legal Word Salad to get things done....
It all starts and Ends with one thing, a Semicolon, which is the exact same problem we have with Gun Control, a Semicolon....
As for Congress approving the Statehood, it was Lincoln who approved it First, unconstitutionally, and Congress approved it later, AFTER WV had fully claimed to be a State....
Believe it or don't, I actually have ALL of this info DL'ed onto my Computer, as an FB file, but like hell if I can figure out HOW to access it, and I have tried every trick I can fin for Linux....
The ""Rebellion"", which only existed in the Minds of the Freemasons, wasn't really much of one....
Almost everywhere they went to preach about the ills f Secession, they were meat with lots of pushback, these people were Virginians First, Southerners Second, and didn't want to lose their Heritage, had they pushed harder, who knows....
Congrats on your two Masters Degrees in Propaganda, I hopefully, still have my sharper points of History, in order to impress....
As for Congress approving the Statehood, it was Lincoln who approved it First, unconstitutionally, and Congress approved it later, AFTER WV had fully claimed to be a State....
That's just not correct. Senate Bill 365 to approve West Virginia statehood was passed by Congress and then signed by Linoln on Dec 31, 1862... happy birthday West Virginia! Perhaps where you are confused, is the recognition of the restored government of Virginia, which was first acknowledged by the President and then Congress seated the new members to the body.
Interesting thing about WV being approved, was that it technically entered as a slave state, at least slavery was legal. However, it included a provision mandating gradual emancipation. Of course the bulk of slaves in VA were in the eastern, primarily coastal region.
The ""Rebellion"", which only existed in the Minds of the Freemasons, wasn't really much of one...
So the seizure of federal military installations never happened? The Army of Northern Virginia was a phantom? All of the masses of battles between federal and rebel forces in VA were just false flags invented by newspapers?
Congrats on your two Masters Degrees in Propaganda,
Backhanded compliments as means to levy ad hominem are quite the tell tale sign of you admitting you've lost this debate. The only propaganda being pushed here is by you and the Lost Cause apologist Aspie.
.
hopefully, still have my sharper points of History, in order to impress....
Whatever works for you man. If the delusional world you live in makes you happy, then by all means stay in it
See my other comments in this thread. Virginia was in a state of rebellion, so a government purporting itself to be the legitimate VA government in exile, loyal to the Constitution, relocated to an area of the state that was not in rebellion. It was this legislature and governor that the federal government recognized as being legitimate. The Western counties petitioned this government to leave VA, and it was approved (10th Amendment allows states to let counties leave the state). Said counties, now as territories within the USA applied to the federal government for statehood, and it was approved.
Though it required some extensive legal gymnastics, technically the logic worked without violating the Constitution.
Thank You for the 1984 on that, but I'm actually a real History Buff, and live in West (ern) Virginia....
There wasn't any ""Rebellion"" in Virginia, there was an uprising or better said and movement by/of the FreeMasons, against the Valid Virginian Govt....
Read this, it has the Facts:: https://www.reddit.com/r/neoliberal/comments/j1rjgq/west_virginia_does_not_exist/
WARNING:: Spoiler Alert_Teaser_Conspiracy Truth_
"" West Virginia Does Not Exist Efortpost
1861, Virginia has a convention on whether to secede from the Union
Later that year, "West Virginians" are deciding to secede from Virginia
Shortened Legal view at link above....
There was a PDF that was written by a Female, and it really got into the entire Constitutional Law side of it without mucking everything up with Stupid References to other States and obscure ""Look at this"" references, she simply stuck to the whole Subject of Constitutionality, and it all came down to a SEMICOLON, which is where the fight against the SECOND Amend., began, and we are still fighting against due to a SEMICOLON....
I'll keep looking for it, IF I find it, I'll post it....
Cool. If we want to play the epenis game, I'm an actual historian with two advanced degrees in the field and specialization in the Founding Era through Reconstruction. So... yeah. Whoopie.
You do realize that what you posted actually affirms what I've been saying, right?
Quite literally, there was rebellion, at least in the eastern counties. One group claimed to be the legitimate secessionist government, while the other claimed to be the legitimate government loyal to the USA. The latter was legally the lawful government and they relocated the capitol to the west as the rebels had seized Richmond.
This legitimate government agreed to let the western counties that would become WV, secede from VA (valid under the 10th Amendment) and then those counties applied for statehood and it was granted by Congress. After the rebellion was subdued, the lawful government of VA was restored to Richmond.
Yes. West Virginia exists. It was constitutionally done, albeit requiring some unsual legal gymnastics.
Unusual Legal Gymnastics??? o.0
It is unusual Mental gymnastics, along with some serious Legal Word Salad to get things done....
It all starts and Ends with one thing, a Semicolon, which is the exact same problem we have with Gun Control, a Semicolon....
As for Congress approving the Statehood, it was Lincoln who approved it First, unconstitutionally, and Congress approved it later, AFTER WV had fully claimed to be a State....
Believe it or don't, I actually have ALL of this info DL'ed onto my Computer, as an FB file, but like hell if I can figure out HOW to access it, and I have tried every trick I can fin for Linux....
The ""Rebellion"", which only existed in the Minds of the Freemasons, wasn't really much of one....
Almost everywhere they went to preach about the ills f Secession, they were meat with lots of pushback, these people were Virginians First, Southerners Second, and didn't want to lose their Heritage, had they pushed harder, who knows....
Congrats on your two Masters Degrees in Propaganda, I hopefully, still have my sharper points of History, in order to impress....
That's just not correct. Senate Bill 365 to approve West Virginia statehood was passed by Congress and then signed by Linoln on Dec 31, 1862... happy birthday West Virginia! Perhaps where you are confused, is the recognition of the restored government of Virginia, which was first acknowledged by the President and then Congress seated the new members to the body.
Interesting thing about WV being approved, was that it technically entered as a slave state, at least slavery was legal. However, it included a provision mandating gradual emancipation. Of course the bulk of slaves in VA were in the eastern, primarily coastal region.
So the seizure of federal military installations never happened? The Army of Northern Virginia was a phantom? All of the masses of battles between federal and rebel forces in VA were just false flags invented by newspapers?
Backhanded compliments as means to levy ad hominem are quite the tell tale sign of you admitting you've lost this debate. The only propaganda being pushed here is by you and the Lost Cause apologist Aspie. .
Whatever works for you man. If the delusional world you live in makes you happy, then by all means stay in it