He wasnt a Christian back then....if people cant be redeemed after participating in depraved behavior then I guess we wont be seeing David or Paul in heaven either
I hear what you're saying - it's hard to think about forgiving things like that.
But,
The Bible says everyone can be saved, no matter the sin. That's the enormity of coverage Jesus' sacrifice offers us if we accept it.
When we accept Jesus' sacrifice - we are covered by his perfection and are seen as such when we Stand before God.
If a person decides to not accept that sacrifice, you are everything you are - which is short of the required perfection. The Bible says that even thinking hateful thoughts is equal to murder - or lustful thoughts are equal to adultery.
With those sorts of standards, EVERY SINGLE ONE of us are in need to be covered by Jesus' sacrifice.
At the end of the day, sin is sin, no little sin or big sin, all sins are classed as sin. The only thing different is the effect of sin, some have little effect or consequences, other sins have life altering/damaging consequences.
The Bible says that even thinking hateful thoughts is equal to murder - or lustful thoughts are equal to adultery.
Slave morality. That is terrible justice. Imagine living in a country where laws were administered like that. What a terrible nightmare of a government that would be, and yet, if the almighty and wisest beyond comprehension can't seem to differentiate between looking at Jane's ass and raping a child then your God is no God.
I want to see you forgive someone and turn the other cheek if, God forbid, something like that ever happens to your loved ones. Then all your religion and philosophy and morals will go out of the window.
My intent is not forgive criminals but to hurry them along to final judgement, hopefully by a God that has sensibilities and does not forgive those horrendous acts of violence against the innocent. I leave the pious and impractical pulpit preaching to you folks.
I hear what you're saying. I've been tested with my own really difficult thing to forgive, just over a year ago now - and I'm still dealing with that.
It's a walk - understanding my own emotions and the difference between righteous anger, which we can definitely have (according to the Bible) - and a desire for Vengeance.
Understanding that according to the Bible "Vengeance is the Lord's" - I have to walk towards the goal of - literally giving my desire for Vengeance - over to the Lord.
And this is also a huge test of what Forgiveness is - in this huge test of Forgiveness, I was able to understand better - the monumental amount of Grace God has given us - for killing Jesus, His perfect son.
Imagine having your perfect son, killed the way Jesus was. Can you imagine how angry you would be?
Now can you also imagine how much you would have to love someone to allow that to happen to your son - because your son was the only way those people (you and me) - could be with God in Heaven when we die?
It's a wild story! These are huge big things.
You illustrate very well the difficulty in these things for us to be able to do ourselves - which is why we bow to God and recognize why we Needed Jesus' sacrifice.
Well now you've done one thing that the left does.
If you're one thing they hate, they assume you're all of it. Nazi, Holocaust denier, the entire gamut.
Alice Cooper found Christ later on, and despite how bad the marketing and some of his songs are, it doesn't mean he was a satanic pedophile. It means they used him to promote it. And I say this as a lukewarm Cooper fan
You guys need to catch up. Promotion of it is the key to everything. They use music and movies to promote their isms.
Those doing their bidding in large part are useful idiots. Some are true believers, however I'd say 75% are doing as they're instructed.
They used to tell us that in 1st grade, but never defined it so we wouldn't accidentally do it. There's always been something wrong with the Catholic Church.
And you don't think diddling a child is equivalent to that and more? Or can you diddle a child so long as you don't say anything bad about Christ and then you can be redeemed?
Overly pious bullshit. Just fucking hang them and let's be done with it. You guys can sing kumbaya and craft drift wood into crosses afterwards.
You know what's funny about you? If someone did something like that to your daughter I'd have a hard time believing you wouldn't physically remove that person from this Earth. Hypocrites standing on an e-pulpit for dopamine.
Vengeance - I think you're maybe coming to the wrong conclusion here.
I don't think anyone will claim to be able to NOT want some version of revenge/justice/vengeance, etc. if the things you described happened to someone we loved...
Or heck - look at the giant world event that is probably in front of us - mega pedo rings are going to be revealed - and the Jab/Lockdowns that were intentionally made to create harm and death to us all.
You are completely right - speaking for myself - if I claimed that I wouldn't want to unleash wrath on the heads of those people... I would absolutely be a hypocrite. Absolutely!
But that's not what we're telling you - we're saying the BIBLE says there is no irredeemable sin - except blapheming the Holy Spirit (which I have to learn more about, honestly).
I can't call other people liars - but I certainly think it would be completely normal and expected to have the reactions that you're saying we would.
Just don't mix US up with what the Bible says. It doesn't even matter what we say - only what the Bible says.
To believe in the need for Jesus, we are literally saying we are F'd without Him. We are completely screwed without Him - we are in NEED of help.
I hear what you're saying - that some of this talk can feel Pious. I get it.
But really - the message of the Bible is one that calls people who are broken (all of us) to someone who loves us and wants to save us from a really bad fate without Him.
Speaking for myself - I take the time to share this with you because, even though I never met you and likely never will - I care about you as a fellow human. I get nothing for stopping here and trading messages with you.
It's not about being pious - it's about sharing the Good News that we know with You.
I used to be like this. And then I read what scripture says. Do not expect to be forgiven by God of you yourself cannot forgive others. Trust me it’s difficult, but learn to hate the enemy, hate the sin, not the sinner. God loves us all. It’s just that some of us continue to want to live in sin, and that’s a problem. It takes time friend. It’s something you and Jesus can talk about. I still do myself.
That's a good point. God, Jesus is my father in heaven. If I picture my mom or dad being mad at us cos we were troubled kids, they'd be angry, punish us, but they'd never hate us, ever. Because we'll always be their children. I think that's how God sees and tries to tell us.
Amen to that. These people can turn the other cheek and look the other way while real Men take care of the scary boogeymen. They can forgive us afterwards and we should in theory still be allowed into Heaven. That's how admission works, apparently.
I agree with you to a point: no matter the sin, the blood of Jesus can cover it and forgive the sinner. However, even before we are saved God restrains us (by our conscience, circumstances, etc.) in the degree of evil that we perpetrate. I believe that people whom God allows to go so far into evil (raping children, mass murderers, etc.) are those "vessels of wrath prepared for destruction" but I cannot say with authority that there will be no former cannibals et al among the redeemed at the end.
Romans 9:22-24 "What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?"
If God exists (I don't think God exists) then God is behind human comprehension, and therefor God's ability to forgive is also beyond our comprehension.
Whether God exists and forgives truly unthinkable crimes, or doesn't exist and therefore the is no forgiveness... That forgiveness is out of our hands.
God will forgive who he will forgive. But we're required to forgive all men? Sounds like a liberal.
Well Jesus said the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and that is because denying the Holy Spirits power is denying the thing that can save you....Read the Bible its full of the most terrible of people being redeemed by God
I don't know which God you are serving... Jesus came for them foremost. "The first shall be last and the last shall be first". Sin is sin, we are all sinners. If you believe your sin is better than others in comparison to the perfectly holy God, you have a surprise coming for you. X/∞=0 no matter how big X gets
With God all things are possible. He is not willing that any should perish. Yes, God will forgive any that accept his forgiveness.
You can see the imperfection he forgives in all of his children, we may be Christians, and we are trying to be better... yet we still all fall short of his Glory.
He wasnt a Christian back then....if people cant be redeemed after participating in depraved behavior then I guess we wont be seeing David or Paul in heaven either
They have to confess and turn away.
Eh I'd like to think God doesn't forgive pedophiles and cannibals but maybe my conception of God is different.
I hear what you're saying - it's hard to think about forgiving things like that.
But,
The Bible says everyone can be saved, no matter the sin. That's the enormity of coverage Jesus' sacrifice offers us if we accept it.
When we accept Jesus' sacrifice - we are covered by his perfection and are seen as such when we Stand before God.
If a person decides to not accept that sacrifice, you are everything you are - which is short of the required perfection. The Bible says that even thinking hateful thoughts is equal to murder - or lustful thoughts are equal to adultery.
With those sorts of standards, EVERY SINGLE ONE of us are in need to be covered by Jesus' sacrifice.
At the end of the day, sin is sin, no little sin or big sin, all sins are classed as sin. The only thing different is the effect of sin, some have little effect or consequences, other sins have life altering/damaging consequences.
This 👆
IDK man, something something millstones + ocean.......
Slave morality. That is terrible justice. Imagine living in a country where laws were administered like that. What a terrible nightmare of a government that would be, and yet, if the almighty and wisest beyond comprehension can't seem to differentiate between looking at Jane's ass and raping a child then your God is no God.
I want to see you forgive someone and turn the other cheek if, God forbid, something like that ever happens to your loved ones. Then all your religion and philosophy and morals will go out of the window.
My intent is not forgive criminals but to hurry them along to final judgement, hopefully by a God that has sensibilities and does not forgive those horrendous acts of violence against the innocent. I leave the pious and impractical pulpit preaching to you folks.
I hear what you're saying. I've been tested with my own really difficult thing to forgive, just over a year ago now - and I'm still dealing with that.
It's a walk - understanding my own emotions and the difference between righteous anger, which we can definitely have (according to the Bible) - and a desire for Vengeance.
Understanding that according to the Bible "Vengeance is the Lord's" - I have to walk towards the goal of - literally giving my desire for Vengeance - over to the Lord.
And this is also a huge test of what Forgiveness is - in this huge test of Forgiveness, I was able to understand better - the monumental amount of Grace God has given us - for killing Jesus, His perfect son.
Imagine having your perfect son, killed the way Jesus was. Can you imagine how angry you would be?
Now can you also imagine how much you would have to love someone to allow that to happen to your son - because your son was the only way those people (you and me) - could be with God in Heaven when we die?
It's a wild story! These are huge big things.
You illustrate very well the difficulty in these things for us to be able to do ourselves - which is why we bow to God and recognize why we Needed Jesus' sacrifice.
Well now you've done one thing that the left does.
If you're one thing they hate, they assume you're all of it. Nazi, Holocaust denier, the entire gamut.
Alice Cooper found Christ later on, and despite how bad the marketing and some of his songs are, it doesn't mean he was a satanic pedophile. It means they used him to promote it. And I say this as a lukewarm Cooper fan
You guys need to catch up. Promotion of it is the key to everything. They use music and movies to promote their isms.
Those doing their bidding in large part are useful idiots. Some are true believers, however I'd say 75% are doing as they're instructed.
The one irredeemable sin mentioned in the Bible is blaspheming the Holy Spirit.
They used to tell us that in 1st grade, but never defined it so we wouldn't accidentally do it. There's always been something wrong with the Catholic Church.
And you don't think diddling a child is equivalent to that and more? Or can you diddle a child so long as you don't say anything bad about Christ and then you can be redeemed?
Overly pious bullshit. Just fucking hang them and let's be done with it. You guys can sing kumbaya and craft drift wood into crosses afterwards.
You know what's funny about you? If someone did something like that to your daughter I'd have a hard time believing you wouldn't physically remove that person from this Earth. Hypocrites standing on an e-pulpit for dopamine.
Vengeance - I think you're maybe coming to the wrong conclusion here.
I don't think anyone will claim to be able to NOT want some version of revenge/justice/vengeance, etc. if the things you described happened to someone we loved...
Or heck - look at the giant world event that is probably in front of us - mega pedo rings are going to be revealed - and the Jab/Lockdowns that were intentionally made to create harm and death to us all.
You are completely right - speaking for myself - if I claimed that I wouldn't want to unleash wrath on the heads of those people... I would absolutely be a hypocrite. Absolutely!
But that's not what we're telling you - we're saying the BIBLE says there is no irredeemable sin - except blapheming the Holy Spirit (which I have to learn more about, honestly).
I can't call other people liars - but I certainly think it would be completely normal and expected to have the reactions that you're saying we would.
Just don't mix US up with what the Bible says. It doesn't even matter what we say - only what the Bible says.
To believe in the need for Jesus, we are literally saying we are F'd without Him. We are completely screwed without Him - we are in NEED of help.
I hear what you're saying - that some of this talk can feel Pious. I get it.
But really - the message of the Bible is one that calls people who are broken (all of us) to someone who loves us and wants to save us from a really bad fate without Him.
Speaking for myself - I take the time to share this with you because, even though I never met you and likely never will - I care about you as a fellow human. I get nothing for stopping here and trading messages with you.
It's not about being pious - it's about sharing the Good News that we know with You.
We are broken and need rescued!
What I think is just as irrelevant as what you think when it comes to the Word of God.
You sound like you have other issues as well. Good luck!
As a mere mortal, I cannot forgive someone for that. God may, but I cannot.
I used to be like this. And then I read what scripture says. Do not expect to be forgiven by God of you yourself cannot forgive others. Trust me it’s difficult, but learn to hate the enemy, hate the sin, not the sinner. God loves us all. It’s just that some of us continue to want to live in sin, and that’s a problem. It takes time friend. It’s something you and Jesus can talk about. I still do myself.
That's a good point. God, Jesus is my father in heaven. If I picture my mom or dad being mad at us cos we were troubled kids, they'd be angry, punish us, but they'd never hate us, ever. Because we'll always be their children. I think that's how God sees and tries to tell us.
Amen to that. These people can turn the other cheek and look the other way while real Men take care of the scary boogeymen. They can forgive us afterwards and we should in theory still be allowed into Heaven. That's how admission works, apparently.
I agree with you to a point: no matter the sin, the blood of Jesus can cover it and forgive the sinner. However, even before we are saved God restrains us (by our conscience, circumstances, etc.) in the degree of evil that we perpetrate. I believe that people whom God allows to go so far into evil (raping children, mass murderers, etc.) are those "vessels of wrath prepared for destruction" but I cannot say with authority that there will be no former cannibals et al among the redeemed at the end.
Romans 9:22-24 "What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?"
If God exists (I don't think God exists) then God is behind human comprehension, and therefor God's ability to forgive is also beyond our comprehension.
Whether God exists and forgives truly unthinkable crimes, or doesn't exist and therefore the is no forgiveness... That forgiveness is out of our hands.
God will forgive who he will forgive. But we're required to forgive all men? Sounds like a liberal.
But vengeance is mine.
I once thought like you do, but God has changed me. If you seek truth, you may find him.
I do seek truth. The beauty of truth is no matter how wonderful or horrible the truth may be, it's still the truth.
What is, is. What exists, exists.
Well Jesus said the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and that is because denying the Holy Spirits power is denying the thing that can save you....Read the Bible its full of the most terrible of people being redeemed by God
I don't know which God you are serving... Jesus came for them foremost. "The first shall be last and the last shall be first". Sin is sin, we are all sinners. If you believe your sin is better than others in comparison to the perfectly holy God, you have a surprise coming for you. X/∞=0 no matter how big X gets
Just consider how far from God humans are, in terms of holiness, and all sin is essentially the same distance from God.
With God all things are possible. He is not willing that any should perish. Yes, God will forgive any that accept his forgiveness.
You can see the imperfection he forgives in all of his children, we may be Christians, and we are trying to be better... yet we still all fall short of his Glory.