"You're assuming that the church has you're best interest at heart. I think if they did have you're best interest at heart they wouldn't have to resort to manipulation and control tactics to keep you coming back week after week to keep their tills full."

what is "the church"? Is it A Church? Is it all of them? You'll have to clarify, as all churches are not the same. Neither are religions. To distill such a nuanced topic to such a crude form is very telling of your motives. Furthermore, people choose to come to church under their own volition, no more than you choose to put on a movie to be entertained, which is far more manipulative than a church service would ever be, but let's set that aside. On the base level it is a group of humans with common beliefs and goals, if you look outside your window, you'll find this is a common trait amongst all mankind, since the dawn of time. How this is indicative of some sort of "manipulation" is beyond me. Yet again, no one is forced to put a penny into the church, at least none that I've been to. You shouldn't have to. Congratulations, it's 2021 and you found out that greed exists. Yes, there are churches who are greedy, who preach pro-choice, who preach gun control. As I said, not all churches are the same. To frame people visiting a church on the weekend as brainwashed money trees is to entirely miss the point of Church in the first place. Let me take a wild guess that your parents were religious, yet you saw hypocrisy, and in doing so branded the failures of those you saw as "Christian or whatever" onto the entire population of believers? Just a guess, it's probably wrong but that sort of thing is common, and it often spurs from child-like rage, such as this.

"There is nothing wrong with lifting your spirits, if that is what is happening. Are you sure that's what's going on or are you in a highly suggestive hypnotic state? I believe it would be easier found out if you could raise your spirt by yourself and then decide. Does the Church teach you to attain the positive light by yourself or is the Church required to do so?"

Yes I am sure. I happen to have attended a church service once or twice. I have a little news for you, when people choose to access information, they put themselves in a "highly suggestive hypnotic state". You, in fact, are in one right now being on this site. You will believe things posted here that you wouldn't anywhere else, because you have put your trust in this source of information. People see religion as information to use in life, to live life by. Please keep your garbled MK-ULTRA spook-shit to conspiracies.win. Next you'll be telling me the only way to undo the manipulation, is to have JFK Jr. arrive on a flying saucer in the shape of my ass. Anyway, "raising your spirit by yourself" is absolutely a great thing, problem is, humans are more powerful together, not only that but new followers simply need assistance in understanding the text, so coming together has several benefits. And usually when spirituality and the self get mixed, the New Age bullshit slithers in and milks you of every dollar. Third eye and such. The same people who would rather manipulate you through other means like drug use, peer pressure, shame etc. etc. As if Satan himself will spare you because your Chakras are too aligned, or your Pineal is too de-calcified. Again, you are speaking of "THE CHURCH". I don't know what that is. I've come out against Catholicism, which is the only church I've ever been to that would even remotely resemble what you're describing here. This sounds like you have a personal vendetta, rather than a philosophical argument. Regardless, it is always upon the individual to make the best decisions for his faith, if he is new and doesn't understand much of anything, why would he not lean on the Church he attends to provide answers as best they can?

"I really don't like Christians or religious types who assume you don't believe in a god or gods because you don't believe in organized religion. Nor do I like Christians who only read and study one religion. Religion has been compartmentalized, each one having part of the picture and all telling a similar story. Christianity is extremely divisive, just ask the homosexuals, jews, gnostics, non believers, ect. You may not be Catholic, but its the origin of your belief and you use their book. You are not far from the tree you fell from."

I don't believe in organized religion. And yet here you are... Organization is not inherently bad. It's not the act of organization that is committing the evil. Ah yes, the "all religions are the same" argument. Please, do not insult my intelligence. When Jesus marries a 9 year old like muhammed, or calls for non-believers to be killed like the Talmud, then I'll listen to your 2016 Sam Harris arguments. To act like all religions are the same is yet ANOTHER gross distillation of several nuanced topics on your path to stamping "the church" (the one I came out and said I was against or another church?) as being on par with MSM. "Each one having part of the picture"... Oh wise one. Please. We beg you. Put the picture together for us. We fumble in our ignorance... Dude, you watched a couple youtube videos and spent about 5 minutes of alone time thinking this through before posting. And that's exactly what it looks like judging from your argument. "Chrsitianity is extremely divisive. (massive fucking eyeroll) K bro, again welcome to 2021 where everything is compromised and weaponized. Ask the Jews? I'm startled that in your vast journey's across the deserts of the middle east, teaching all religions their flaws I'm sure, you never happened upon what the Jewish belief on Gentiles is. Maybe swallow some pride and check it out. I'm not even going to attempt to explain why saying Christianity is divisive is such a profoundly broad and stupid statement, because as mentioned before, Sam Harris was much smarter than you and much more researched, and even he could not persuade me that the argument didn't belong to a whiney pseudo-intellectual with unknown personal grudges against a particular religion. I don't "use their book". We use the King James Bible. Catholics have other books, that are written by men. We do not use such books, or foolish traditional ceremony beyond what the bible calls for. You don't even know what eco-system I'm in, you've shown that much. Try again.

"How exactly do you think the cabal controlled the masses before television and radio? The Catholic Church was the MSM of its time and still hold sway. The C.C. developed the mesmerizing of the congregation. Weather all churches have nefarious intents and purposes or not, they are using the C.C.'s age old technics. The typical church goer is completely unaware of what the Church is doing and that is wrong. If your church does not make you aware of the priming then its nefarious."

Again, if you read what I said, I came out as against the Catholic Political Structure. News flash, not all churches are the Vatican. Even other Catholic ones. Thank you for arguing about a point I never made. Whether* can you list some tactics out? Or are you just going to totally bypass using evidence in this debate?

I've had this discussion 100 times. And it always turns out the same. Let's see if we can make it 100-1, humor me.