This is where the they/them pronouns come from. They bastardise and purposely misinterpret the Bible.
They also say Jesus was genderqueer.
If there was one thing I wish anon’s would begin to take more seriously and to research more deeply it would be the source and history of all this trans stuff.
MrE does good work on exposing the transgender Kabbalists and Pagans who run our world and of linking it to the Bible and of showing the religious aspects behind what they are doing.
HELL-ETERNAL TORMENT, as taught today and my answer to that. I believe each person should decide for themselves based on prayer and research.
Okay, this will be long. Please know that I do not consider myself a "be all, end all" of scripture. I study in depth but I certainly only really understand a small percentage of scripture. "Hell" is a topic I have studied a lot.
First we know that Our God is a consuming fire. Second, And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Destroy=cancel out, remove, utterly perish. Apóllymi. Who can do this? Only Our Father can utterly remove/cancel out/cause to perish-a soul.
What is the second death? It is the death-utter perishing-of the soul. It will be as if the wicked never existed. They will be wiped from all memory. If you ever watched a movie called, “frequency”, you will have some idea of how it will be. How would you be at peace in Our Father’s kingdom knowing those you loved in the flesh realm are now burning for ever and ever? Would we really think that is justice? Is that Our Father’s idea of justice? Let’s see if it is.
The word “hell” is used interchangeably with these words: Gehenna, Hades (Sheol), and tartaroo/tartarus.
Gehenna: Gehenna was used for the fires of destruction associated with the judgment of God.
Hades: The grave.
Tartaroo/tartarus: Where the fallen angels are held.
I believe there is eternal judgment-as in the righteous have eternal life and the wicked are no more.
Our Father tells us what things mean in the context of His scriptures. His Word gives us second and third witnesses (and even more) to the truth.
If “Hell” is a place of eternal torment and fire, why did our Father say this:
King James Bible
“And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.”
It NEVER came into our Father’s mind they would do this horrible thing. Yet, we say our Father would do this to His Children?!! How long suffering and patient our Father is to make sure that “whomsoever will”, will come to Him. In the end their will be judgment and a destruction of the wicked, but Our Father gives us EVERY chance-even sacrificing Himself. In the end it will be the choice of every person as to whether they have eternal life or destruction.
The idea of hell came from pagan philosophers. Hell is not in Greek literature in New Testament times, or used by first or second century writers. It is not used by Josephus or any other historian of that time. It is not in the Septuagint. Hell is not used by anyone in the first century, the Old Testament Hebrew or the New Testament Greek. How do we know about this place called Hell? Not by faith that comes by hearing God's Word. It is from the doctrines and precepts of men and came along after the writing of the New Testament. It was put in the Bible by mistranslating four words.
To believe in eternal torment for the soul one cannot believe the Word of God.
God said "Destruction" -
Man says:
God meant "Torment"
God said "Death"
Man says:
God meant "separation"
The Bible says:
The wages of sin are death
Man says:
The human soul can not die, but is tortured in hell forever.
The first death is the end of the life of the flesh (life as it exists now). The second death then must also be the end of life (life as it exists then-death of the soul) or it is not a second death, but something altogether different. An everlasting life of torment is not a second death.
The unsaved die, perish, are destroyed, and are lost. The obedient are saved from death and given life and immortality at judgment.
If there is no second death (end of your mortal soul) then:
Those who are destroyed are not destroyed:
James 4:12
12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
(KJV)
2 Pet 2:12
12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
(KJV)
Those who perish, do not perish:
John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(KJV)
Those who die, do not die:
Rom 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
(KJV)
The end of the wicked is not the end
Phil 3:18-19
18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
(KJV)
Death is to be destroyed
1 Cor 15:26
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
(KJV)
How? By being cast into the Lake of Fire
Rev 20:14
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
(KJV)
Yet we teach that when evil men are cast into this same lake of fire they are tormented by it but not abolished or destroyed. If the wages of sin are death, then that debt cannot be paid because death is not death but torment forever.
The Lake of Fire is only a symbol (metaphor) of the second death. The second death is real.
Rev 20:10
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
(KJV)
Well, is the devil tortured eternally if we are? What does scripture say?
Ezek 28:18
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
(KJV)
Day and Night=the beginning and the end as "forever" (forever gone-turned to ash)
Touchstone is used to test metals. It is a black siliceous stone used to test the purity of Gold or Silver by the color of the streak produced on it by rubbing it with either metal.
1 Cor 3:13
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
(KJV)
Our Father is called a "rock" and a "stone"...though He is not literally a rock or stone. He is also a refining fire.
Mal 3:1-3
1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
Prov 17:3
3 The fining pot is for silver, and the furnace for gold: but the LORD trieth the hearts.
(KJV)
So Eternal life is for the righteous
Eternal death is for the wicked
Meaning forever and ever you will be alive with our Father.
Or you will be forever destroyed and evil will be no more.
I'm not trying to change anything but present scripture as written. Nor do I think it is my duty to change your mind. I just hope and pray that people will research and think about it.
The earliest church did not teach it as they do now. I believe it was a way to scare people into being saved.
I know God has wrath and judgment for the unrighteous but fear does not make me obedient. It is love. It is about the nature of God to me.
There are a lot of things written about scripture. Some are true and some are not. I know what we have been taught all our lives and I realized these teachings are wrong because scripture does not back it up.
Thank you again for discussing. As brothers and sisters in Christ we should always be able to discuss and free to do that.
Well, I post what I post because I consider the teachings of eternal torment akin to trying to scare people into the kingdom. (Not saying you are doing that. I think you posted in good faith).
So the righteous have everlasting life and sinners do too? Are sinners tortured forever? On the day of judgment what is cast into the lake of fire? Wouldn't that be death and hell?
What is the second death? Isn't that the death of the soul?
Our Father does NOT torture His children. This whole earth age is to save God's children. Jesus paid the price with his own torture and death. The whole point of salvation is for a blessed eternal life not to threaten others with eternal torment-which a lot of churches seem to do and is not scriptural.
Yes the results of following Satan is the death of your soul. You will be no more. But it is not eternal torture. The words are.misleading to our understanding and thats why context and true definitions are important.
The question of Lazarus, the rich man, and the gulf. Judgment day has not happened because there is still a mortal realm with family of the rich man-and the rich man is in torments because he realized he has nothing now. This isn't even the millennium. This is "paradise" and there is a gulf that can't be crossed. His earthly riches are of no help here.
Remember Paul went to the third heaven..paradise, eden, a place before the judgment
I apologize. I will reread. But my intentions were not to cause harm at all. Thank you. I might have missed that. But it seems we may be in agreement on that point.
You brought up an interesting thought about male and female after death. Jesus being our example...he was not immediately recognized in his resurrected body, but then he was. So thank you for that
I never said there is no judgement just no eternal fire or torture. I knew I would step on a hornets nest but I will stand my ground and give evidence. Then it is up to you
I read it. I disagree wholeheartedly but I thank you for posting the link. I was actually kind if shocked by what I read since it ignores so many scriptures.
Kabbalists insist that Adam was androgynous
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/adam-kadmon
This is where the they/them pronouns come from. They bastardise and purposely misinterpret the Bible.
They also say Jesus was genderqueer.
If there was one thing I wish anon’s would begin to take more seriously and to research more deeply it would be the source and history of all this trans stuff.
MrE does good work on exposing the transgender Kabbalists and Pagans who run our world and of linking it to the Bible and of showing the religious aspects behind what they are doing.
Spend some time watching his videos
Watch till the end of this one about the Schumers
https://archive.org/details/BitChute-8niht3QQguWU
Here’s his Bitchute channel:
https://www.bitchute.com/channel/O1YaUL5i13Ln/
Well worthy of research. The trans ideology runs a lot deeper than you think, and is more in your face than you realise.
Yes, there is more to it. Thank you. It is all about the old religions of the gods. Not anything to do with Our Father.
Sadly you already gave up ground when saying "gender." NEVER say gender.
Gender is an idea. Your sex is a reality.
I just call them what they are - anti-science chromosome deniers.
Post is great - just substitute sex for gender. There are two sexes. You either are xx or xy.
HELL-ETERNAL TORMENT, as taught today and my answer to that. I believe each person should decide for themselves based on prayer and research.
Okay, this will be long. Please know that I do not consider myself a "be all, end all" of scripture. I study in depth but I certainly only really understand a small percentage of scripture. "Hell" is a topic I have studied a lot.
First we know that Our God is a consuming fire. Second, And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Destroy=cancel out, remove, utterly perish. Apóllymi. Who can do this? Only Our Father can utterly remove/cancel out/cause to perish-a soul.
What is the second death? It is the death-utter perishing-of the soul. It will be as if the wicked never existed. They will be wiped from all memory. If you ever watched a movie called, “frequency”, you will have some idea of how it will be. How would you be at peace in Our Father’s kingdom knowing those you loved in the flesh realm are now burning for ever and ever? Would we really think that is justice? Is that Our Father’s idea of justice? Let’s see if it is. The word “hell” is used interchangeably with these words: Gehenna, Hades (Sheol), and tartaroo/tartarus.
Gehenna: Gehenna was used for the fires of destruction associated with the judgment of God.
Hades: The grave.
Tartaroo/tartarus: Where the fallen angels are held. I believe there is eternal judgment-as in the righteous have eternal life and the wicked are no more.
Our Father tells us what things mean in the context of His scriptures. His Word gives us second and third witnesses (and even more) to the truth.
If “Hell” is a place of eternal torment and fire, why did our Father say this:
King James Bible “And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.”
It NEVER came into our Father’s mind they would do this horrible thing. Yet, we say our Father would do this to His Children?!! How long suffering and patient our Father is to make sure that “whomsoever will”, will come to Him. In the end their will be judgment and a destruction of the wicked, but Our Father gives us EVERY chance-even sacrificing Himself. In the end it will be the choice of every person as to whether they have eternal life or destruction.
The idea of hell came from pagan philosophers. Hell is not in Greek literature in New Testament times, or used by first or second century writers. It is not used by Josephus or any other historian of that time. It is not in the Septuagint. Hell is not used by anyone in the first century, the Old Testament Hebrew or the New Testament Greek. How do we know about this place called Hell? Not by faith that comes by hearing God's Word. It is from the doctrines and precepts of men and came along after the writing of the New Testament. It was put in the Bible by mistranslating four words.
To believe in eternal torment for the soul one cannot believe the Word of God. God said "Destruction" - Man says: God meant "Torment"
God said "Death" Man says: God meant "separation" The Bible says: The wages of sin are death Man says: The human soul can not die, but is tortured in hell forever.
The first death is the end of the life of the flesh (life as it exists now). The second death then must also be the end of life (life as it exists then-death of the soul) or it is not a second death, but something altogether different. An everlasting life of torment is not a second death.
The unsaved die, perish, are destroyed, and are lost. The obedient are saved from death and given life and immortality at judgment. If there is no second death (end of your mortal soul) then: Those who are destroyed are not destroyed:
James 4:12 12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another? (KJV)
2 Pet 2:12 12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; (KJV) Those who perish, do not perish:
John 3:16 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (KJV) Those who die, do not die:
Rom 6:23 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (KJV) The end of the wicked is not the end
Phil 3:18-19 18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: 19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) (KJV) Death is to be destroyed
1 Cor 15:26 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. (KJV)
How? By being cast into the Lake of Fire
Rev 20:14 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. (KJV)
Yet we teach that when evil men are cast into this same lake of fire they are tormented by it but not abolished or destroyed. If the wages of sin are death, then that debt cannot be paid because death is not death but torment forever.
The Lake of Fire is only a symbol (metaphor) of the second death. The second death is real.
Rev 20:10 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (KJV)
Well, is the devil tortured eternally if we are? What does scripture say?
Ezek 28:18 18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. (KJV)
Day and Night=the beginning and the end as "forever" (forever gone-turned to ash)
Tormented=Basanizo (92 torture, torment, vex, touch-stone
Touchstone is used to test metals. It is a black siliceous stone used to test the purity of Gold or Silver by the color of the streak produced on it by rubbing it with either metal.
1 Cor 3:13 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. (KJV)
Our Father is called a "rock" and a "stone"...though He is not literally a rock or stone. He is also a refining fire.
Mal 3:1-3 1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. 2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
Prov 17:3 3 The fining pot is for silver, and the furnace for gold: but the LORD trieth the hearts. (KJV)
So Eternal life is for the righteous Eternal death is for the wicked Meaning forever and ever you will be alive with our Father. Or you will be forever destroyed and evil will be no more.
I'm not trying to change anything but present scripture as written. Nor do I think it is my duty to change your mind. I just hope and pray that people will research and think about it.
The earliest church did not teach it as they do now. I believe it was a way to scare people into being saved.
I know God has wrath and judgment for the unrighteous but fear does not make me obedient. It is love. It is about the nature of God to me.
There are a lot of things written about scripture. Some are true and some are not. I know what we have been taught all our lives and I realized these teachings are wrong because scripture does not back it up.
Thank you again for discussing. As brothers and sisters in Christ we should always be able to discuss and free to do that.
Well, I post what I post because I consider the teachings of eternal torment akin to trying to scare people into the kingdom. (Not saying you are doing that. I think you posted in good faith).
So the righteous have everlasting life and sinners do too? Are sinners tortured forever? On the day of judgment what is cast into the lake of fire? Wouldn't that be death and hell?
What is the second death? Isn't that the death of the soul?
Our Father does NOT torture His children. This whole earth age is to save God's children. Jesus paid the price with his own torture and death. The whole point of salvation is for a blessed eternal life not to threaten others with eternal torment-which a lot of churches seem to do and is not scriptural.
Yes the results of following Satan is the death of your soul. You will be no more. But it is not eternal torture. The words are.misleading to our understanding and thats why context and true definitions are important.
The question of Lazarus, the rich man, and the gulf. Judgment day has not happened because there is still a mortal realm with family of the rich man-and the rich man is in torments because he realized he has nothing now. This isn't even the millennium. This is "paradise" and there is a gulf that can't be crossed. His earthly riches are of no help here.
Remember Paul went to the third heaven..paradise, eden, a place before the judgment
I apologize. I will reread. But my intentions were not to cause harm at all. Thank you. I might have missed that. But it seems we may be in agreement on that point.
You brought up an interesting thought about male and female after death. Jesus being our example...he was not immediately recognized in his resurrected body, but then he was. So thank you for that
Will reread on my computer to see better lol
I never said there is no judgement just no eternal fire or torture. I knew I would step on a hornets nest but I will stand my ground and give evidence. Then it is up to you
I read it. I disagree wholeheartedly but I thank you for posting the link. I was actually kind if shocked by what I read since it ignores so many scriptures.
But I appreciate the discussion
Okay we can discuss because scripturally eternal torment is misunderstood. I will back it up