Thanks 45. It's a good question. Here are a few that certainly indicate that.

Personally, I believe that before one reads scripture, one should pray for discernment and insight. Everyone has a different approach, but for me, scripture cannot be properly appreciated and understood without the insight of the Holy Spirit (aka in rapport with God's heart and spirit).

“All nations that You have made shall come and worship before You, O Lord, and shall glorify your Name” (Psalm 86:9).

All nations. One might interpret this as metaphor - "all nations" = most nations, or all nations but not all people, but a nation is made up of its people.

“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved” (John 3:16-17).

The world. Can God save the world if part of the world is condemned forever?

“And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world” (I John 4:14).

“The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance” (II Peter 3:9).

It says here that the Lord is not willing that any should perish. Doesn't this mean, that if some perish, the Lord's will is not done? How else could we interpret that? Yes, the Lord wills that none perish, but if some do, too bad? The Lord doesn't really will that none perish. He's OK with cutting his losses?

“All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord, and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before You” (Psalm 22:27).

Again, all. Can we interpret "all" in the scripture simply to actually mean "a large part of" or "at least half"?

In my understanding, the real issue here is that in the past, scholars, theologians and certain believers have not been able to logically reconcile their literal interpretation of "eternal" punishment, fire, damnation, with the scriptures that indicate very strongly that ALL will in fact be saved at the end of the salvation process. Therefore, they went with the more literal (and limited) understanding, and abandoned the scriptures that disagreed with that view, choosing to interpret those scripture .... conveniently (in a way that supports their literal understanding). It's understandable, psychologically, but as Paul very clearly stated: "NOW we see darkly, THEN we shall see clearly".

We do the best we can with what we can understand at the time. But unless we have an open heart and open mind so that God can upgrade our understanding of His word, we can easily become bogged down and rigid in clinging to our limited understanding (naturally limited, because our faith is not mature and perfect).

Wasn't this exactly what Paul was indirectly guiding us to understand in 1 Cor 13:11? If we are growing, then our understanding of should also grow. Am I growing in the Lord? My understanding of God's word should be growing (deepening) year to year. If my understanding is static, then is my faith also static? do I have the name of being alive but am I actually dead?

The child's understanding is not bad; it's appropriate. But in natural development, we have to recognize that growth, including growth in faith, growth in heart, and growth in the spirit, involves a constantly developing understanding, when we put aside previous understandings and are open to a more mature view.

“…having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He has purposed in Himself, that in the dispensation of the fulness of times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth, even in Him” (Ephesians 1:9-10).

All things.

“…Who will have all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth… Who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time” (I Timothy 2:4,6).

Who? The Lord. What is his will? that all men be saved. Will the Lord's will be done, or not?

“…that at the Name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father” (Philippians 2:10-11).

Every.

To reconcile the scriptures of eternal damnation and the scriptures that all will in fact be saved and restored to God in the end, we have no real choice but to logically understand "eternal" as in fact referring to the state of being beyond time and space, which is the realm that God the Father himself resides.

Otherwise, we must choose to interpret the scriptures that indicate all *** and every *** as being merely metaphorical, and not literal at all.

Isn't understanding the "'eternal" as referring to that life and/or suffering in that transcendent realm beyond time and space far more consistent with the perception of a loving parent who would never abandon any child. If God is actually willing that, in the end, some get saved, but some are discarded or relegated to a constant suffering without any recourse, what kind of love is that? Wouldn't God be in constant pain then too?

An immature child might think things work that way (cutting your losses, too bad for those that screw up), but a truly loving parent who would sacrifice everything he owns in order to rescue his child would never think that way, in my opinion.

Anyway, that's my faith and that's my conviction. Just sharing here in the hope that through the exchange of faith and understanding, we both (all) may grow closer to Him (and each other).

Be well, fren.

Thanks 45. It's a good question. Here are a few that certainly indicate that.

Personally, I believe that before one reads scripture, one should pray for discernment and insight. Everyone has a different approach, but for me, scripture cannot be properly appreciated and understood without the insight of the Holy Spirit (aka in rapport with God's heart and spirit).

“All nations that You have made shall come and worship before You, O Lord, and shall glorify your Name” (Psalm 86:9).

All nations. One might interpret this as metaphor - "all nations" = most nations, or all nations but not all people, but a nation is made up of its people.

“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved” (John 3:16-17).

The world. Can God save the world if part of the world is condemned forever?

“And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world” (I John 4:14).

“The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance” (II Peter 3:9).

It says here that the Lord is not willing that any should perish. Doesn't this mean, that if some perish, the Lord's will is not done? How else could we interpret that? Yes, the Lord wills that none perish, but if some do, too bad? The Lord doesn't really will that none perish. He's OK with cutting his losses?

“All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord, and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before You” (Psalm 22:27).

Again, all. Can we interpret "all" in the scripture simply to actually mean "a large part of" or "at least half"?

In my understanding, the real issue here is that in the past, scholars, theologians and certain believers have not been able to logically reconcile their literal interpretation of "eternal" punishment, fire, damnation, with the scriptures that indicate very strongly that ALL will in fact be saved at the end of the salvation process. Therefore, they went with the more literal (and limited) understanding, and abandoned the scriptures that disagreed with that view, choosing to interpret those scripture .... conveniently (in a way that supports their literal understanding). It's understandable, psychologically, but as Paul very clearly stated: "NOW we see darkly, THEN we shall see clearly".

We do the best we can with what we can understand at the time. But unless we have an open heart and open mind so that God can upgrade our understanding of His word, we can easily become bogged down and rigid in clinging to our limited understanding (naturally limited, because our faith is not mature and perfect).

Wasn't this exactly what Paul was indirectly guiding us to understand in 1 Cor 13:11? If we are growing, then our understanding of should also grow. Am I growing in the Lord? My understanding of God's word should be growing (deepening) year to year. If my understanding is static, then is my faith also static? do I have the name of being alive but am I actually dead?

The child's understanding is not bad; it's appropriate. But in natural development, we have to recognize that growth, including growth in faith, growth in heart, and growth in the spirit, involves a constantly developing understanding, when we put aside previous understandings and are open to a more mature view.

“…having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He has purposed in Himself, that in the dispensation of the fulness of times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth, even in Him” (Ephesians 1:9-10).

All things.

“…Who will have all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth… Who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time” (I Timothy 2:4,6).

Who? The Lord. What is his will? that all men be saved. Will the Lord's will be done, or not?

“…that at the Name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father” (Philippians 2:10-11).

Every.

To reconcile the scriptures of eternal damnation and the scriptures that all will in fact be saved and restored to God in the end, we have no real choice but to logically understand "eternal" as in fact referring to the state of being beyond time and space, which is the realm that God the Father himself resides.

Otherwise, we must choose to interpret the scriptures that indicate all *** and every *** as being merely metaphorical, and not literal at all.

understanding the "'eternal" as referring to that transcendent realm is far more consistent with a loving parent who would never abandon any child. If God is actually willing that, in the end, some get saved, but some are discarded or relegated to a constant suffering without any recourse, what kind of love is that?

An immature child might think things work that way, but a truly loving parent who would sacrifice everything he owns in order to rescue his child would never think that way, in my opinion.

Anyway, that's my faith and that's my conviction. Just sharing here in the hope that through the exchange of faith and understanding, we both (all) may grow closer to Him (and each other).

Be well, fren.

Thanks 45. It's a good question. Here are a few that certainly indicate that.

Personally, I believe that before one reads scripture, one should pray for discernment and insight. Everyone has a different approach, but for me, scripture cannot be properly appreciated and understood without the insight of the Holy Spirit (aka in rapport with God's heart and spirit).

“All nations that You have made shall come and worship before You, O Lord, and shall glorify your Name” (Psalm 86:9).

All nations. One might interpret this as metaphor - "all nations" = most nations, or all nations but not all people, but a nation is made up of its people.

“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved” (John 3:16-17).

The world. Can God save the world if part of the world is condemned forever?

“And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world” (I John 4:14).

“The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance” (II Peter 3:9).

It says here that the Lord is not willing that any should perish. Doesn't this mean, that if some perish, the Lord's will is not done? How else could we interpret that? Yes, the Lord wills that none perish, but if some do, too bad? The Lord doesn't really will that none perish. He's OK with cutting his losses?

“All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord, and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before You” (Psalm 22:27).

Again, all. Can we interpret "all" in the scripture simply to actually mean "a large part of" or "at least half"?

In my understanding, the real issue here is that in the past, scholars, theologians and certain believers have not been able to logically reconcile their literal interpretation of "eternal" punishment, fire, damnation, with the scriptures that indicate very strongly that ALL will in fact be saved at the end of the salvation process. Therefore, they went with the more literal (and limited) understanding, and abandoned the scriptures that disagreed with that view, choosing to interpret those scripture .... conveniently (in a way that supports their literal understanding). It's understandable, psychologically, but as Paul very clearly stated: "NOW we see darkly, THEN we shall see clearly".

We do the best we can with what we can understand at the time. But unless we have an open heart and open mind so that God can upgrade our understanding of His word, we can easily become bogged down and rigid in clinging to our limited understanding.

Wasn't this exactly what Paul was indirectly guiding us to understand in 1 Cor 13:11? If we are growing, then our understanding of should also grow. Am I growing in the Lord? My understanding of God's word should be growing (deepening) year to year. If my understanding is static, then is my faith also static? do I have the name of being alive but am I actually dead?

The child's understanding is not bad; it's appropriate. But in natural development, we have to recognize that growth, including growth in faith, growth in heart, and growth in the spirit, involves a constantly developing understanding, when we put aside previous understandings and are open to a more mature view.

“…having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He has purposed in Himself, that in the dispensation of the fulness of times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth, even in Him” (Ephesians 1:9-10).

All things.

“…Who will have all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth… Who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time” (I Timothy 2:4,6).

Who? The Lord. What is his will? that all men be saved. Will the Lord's will be done, or not?

“…that at the Name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father” (Philippians 2:10-11).

Every.

To reconcile the scriptures of eternal damnation and the scriptures that all will in fact be saved and restored to God in the end, we have no real choice but to logically understand "eternal" as in fact referring to the state of being beyond time and space, which is the realm that God the Father himself resides.

Otherwise, we must choose to interpret the scriptures that indicate all *** and every *** as being merely metaphorical, and not literal at all.

understanding the "'eternal" as referring to that transcendent realm is far more consistent with a loving parent who would never abandon any child. If God is actually willing that, in the end, some get saved, but some are discarded or relegated to a constant suffering without any recourse, what kind of love is that?

An immature child might think things work that way, but a truly loving parent who would sacrifice everything he owns in order to rescue his child would never think that way, in my opinion.

Anyway, that's my faith and that's my conviction. Just sharing here in the hope that through the exchange of faith and understanding, we both (all) may grow closer to Him (and each other).

Be well, fren.

Thanks 45. It's a good question. Here are a few that certainly indicate that.

Personally, I believe that before one reads scripture, one should pray for discernment and insight. Everyone has a different approach, but for me, scripture cannot be properly appreciated and understood without the insight of the Holy Spirit (aka in rapport with God's heart and spirit).

“All nations that You have made shall come and worship before You, O Lord, and shall glorify your Name” (Psalm 86:9).

All nations. One might interpret this as metaphor - "all nations" = most nations, or all nations but not all people, but a nation is made up of its people.

“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved” (John 3:16-17).

The world. Can God save the world if part of the world is condemned forever?

“And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world” (I John 4:14).

“The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance” (II Peter 3:9).

It says here that the Lord is not willing that any should perish. Doesn't this mean, that if some perish, the Lord's will is not done? How else could we interpret that? Yes, the Lord wills that none perish, but if some do, too bad? The Lord doesn't really will that none perish. He's OK with cutting his losses?

“All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord, and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before You” (Psalm 22:27).

Again, all. Can we interpret "all" in the scripture simply to actually mean "a large part of" or "at least half"?

In my understanding, the real issue here is that in the past, scholars, theologians and certain believers have not been able to logically reconcile their literal interpretation of "eternal" punishment, fire, damnation, with the scriptures that indicate very strongly that ALL will in fact be saved at the end of the salvation process. Therefore, they went with the more literal (and limited) understanding, and abandoned the scriptures that disagreed with that view, choosing to interpret those scripture .... conveniently (in a way that supports their literal understanding). It's understandable, psychologically, but as Paul very clearly stated: "NOW we see darkly, THEN we shall see clearly".

We do the best we can with what we can understand at the time. But unless we have an open heart and open mind so that God can upgrade our understanding of His word, we can easily become bogged down and rigid in clinging to our limited understanding.

Wasn't this exactly what Paul was indirectly guiding us to understand in 1 Cor 13:11? If we are growing, then our understanding of should also grow. Am I growing in the Lord? My understanding of God's word should be growing (deepening) year to year. If my understanding is static, then is my faith also static? do I have the name of being alive but am I actually dead?

The child's understanding is not bad; it's appropriate. But in natural development, we have to recognize that growth, including growth in faith, growth in heart, and growth in the spirit, involves a constantly developing understanding, when we put aside previous understandings and are open to a more mature view.

“…having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He has purposed in Himself, that in the dispensation of the fulness of times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth, even in Him” (Ephesians 1:9-10).

All things.

“…Who will have all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth… Who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time” (I Timothy 2:4,6).

Who? The Lord. What is his will? that all men be saved. Will the Lord's will be done, or not?

“…that at the Name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father” (Philippians 2:10-11).

Every.

To reconcile the scriptures of eternal damnation and the scriptures that all will in fact be saved and restored to God in the end, we have no real choice but to logically understand "eternal" as in fact referring to the state of being beyond time and space, which is the realm that God the Father himself resides.

Otherwise, we must choose to interpret the scriptures that indicate all *** and every *** as being merely metaphorical, and not literal at all.

understanding the "'eternal" as referring to that transcendent realm is far more consistent with a loving parent who would never abandon any child. If God is actually willing that, in the end, some get saved, but some are discarded or relegated to a constant suffering without any recourse, what kind of love is that?

An immature child might think things work that way, but a truly loving parent who would sacrifice everything he owns in order to rescue his child would never think that way, in my opinion.

Anyway, that's my faith and that's my conviction. Just sharing here in the hope that through the exchange of faith and understanding, we both (all) may grow closer to Him (and each other).

Be well, fren.

Thanks 45. It's a good question. Here are a few that certainly indicate that.

Personally, I believe that before one reads scripture, one should pray for discernment and insight. Everyone has a different approach, but for me, scripture cannot be properly appreciated and understood without the insight of the Holy Spirit (aka in rapport with God's heart and spirit).

“All nations that You have made shall come and worship before You, O Lord, and shall glorify your Name” (Psalm 86:9).

All nations. One might interpret this as metaphor - "all nations" = most nations, or all nations but not all people, but a nation is made up of its people.

“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved” (John 3:16-17).

The world. Can God save the world if part of the world is condemned forever?

“And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world” (I John 4:14).

“The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance” (II Peter 3:9).

It says here that the Lord is not willing that any should perish. Doesn't this mean, that if some perish, the Lord's will is not done? How else could we interpret that? Yes, the Lord wills that none perish, but if some do, too bad? The Lord doesn't really will that none perish. He's OK with cutting his losses?

“All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord, and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before You” (Psalm 22:27).

Again, all. Can we interpret "all" in the scripture simply to actually mean "a large part of" or "at least half"?

In my understanding, the real issue here is that in the past, scholars, theologians and certain believers have not been able to logically reconcile their literal interpretation of "eternal" punishment, fire, damnation, with the scriptures that indicate very strongly that ALL will in fact be saved at the end of the salvation process. Therefore, they went with the more literal (and limited) understanding, and abandoned the scriptures that disagreed with that view, choosing to interpret those scripture .... conveniently (in a way that supports their literal understanding). It's understandable, psychologically, but as Paul very clearly stated: "NOW we see darkly, THEN we shall see clearly".

We do the best we can with what we can understand at the time. But unless we have an open heart and open mind so that God can upgrade our understanding of His word, we can easily become bogged down and rigid in clinging to our limited understanding.

Wasn't this exactly what Paul was indirectly guiding us to understand in 1 Cor 13:11? If we are growing, then our understanding of should also grow. Am I growing in the Lord? My understanding of God's word should be growing (deepening) year to year. If my understanding is static, then is my faith also static? do I have the name of being alive but am I actually dead?

The child's understanding is not bad; it's appropriate. But in natural development, we have to recognize that growth, including growth in faith, growth in heart, and growth in the spirit, involves a constantly developing understanding, when we put aside previous understandings and are open to a more mature view.

“…having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He has purposed in Himself, that in the dispensation of the fulness of times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth, even in Him” (Ephesians 1:9-10).

All things.

“…Who will have all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth… Who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time” (I Timothy 2:4,6).

Who? The Lord. What is his will? that all men be saved. Will the Lord's will be done, or not?

“…that at the Name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father” (Philippians 2:10-11).

Every.

To reconcile the scriptures of eternal damnation and the scriptures that all will in fact be saved and restored to God in the end, we have no real choice but to logically understand "eternal" as in fact referring to the state of being beyond time and space, which is the realm that God the Father himself resides.

Otherwise, we must choose to interpret the scriptures that indicate all *** and every *** as being merely metaphorical, and not literal at all.

understanding the "'eternal" as referring to that transcendent realm is far more consistent with a loving parent who would never abandon any child. If God is actually willing that, in the end, some get saved, but some are discarded or relegated to a constant suffering without any recourse, what kind of love is that?

An immature child might think things work that way, but a truly loving parent who would sacrifice everything he owns in order to rescue his child would never think that way, in my opinion.

Anyway, that's my faith and that's my conviction. Just sharing here in the hope that through the exchange of faith and understanding, we both (all) may grow closer to Him (and each other).

Be well, fren.