"You advocate for a society free to 'do what thou will'" No, and don't hit me with that straw man argument. You're insinuating that Satanic influence has led me to my position, and I don't appreciate it. I have done nothing but denounce bad behavior. I think gay men are happiest when they find a good man to commit to and live a peaceful, monogamous life. That's what I advocate, and in my experience that's what the majority of gay men are looking for. So don't feed me that bullshit.
I used to think like you - that there was something wrong with being gay. I tried to be straight for 20 years of my adult life, because that's what I was told God wanted of me. It didn't work; it did a lot of damage. But it also forced me to seek my own relationship with God rather than trust those who claim to know him. For that, it was worth it.
You know what God told me, once I had enough faith to listen? That he doesn't care about homosexuality. He expects us to love one another and to respect each others' agency, and to act in accordance with those values. He also showed me how the traditional Christian view of the Bible is incorrect on the topic, being based off of mistranslations and out-of-context interpretations. We can go into that if you like, and I can show you exactly how each passage cited from scripture is incorrectly applied. Suffice to say, after millennia being passed through the hands of men, both honest and deceitful, the original truths have not survived unscathed in the arbitrary compilation that we today call the Bible. To say that "the Bible has never been wrong" is to read it in an exceedingly selective fashion. God's word has never been wrong, but not everything in the Bible is God's word, and not every Christian tradition and dogma is found in the Bible.
After 20 years of trying to see it your way, I have identified every flaw in your thinking, because they used to be flaws in my thinking.
"Sexual deviancy is the #1 cause of declining birthrates..." Yes, and it ain't because of the gays. Gays are 4-5% of the population and always have been. You have rightly mentioned heterosexual deviancy; if you want to address declining birthrates, you ought to be focusing on that rather than turning gays into the scapegoat for heterosexual misbehavior - it's a really bad argument to say that there aren't enough babies because too many straight people get tricked or led into being gay. It's utterly ridiculous. If you're born straight, you're straight. I wouldn't ever try to persuade you to think otherwise, and I expect the same respect for the fact that I was born gay. I wouldn't have chosen it, believe you me, particularly with my Christian upbringing. My life has been filled with loneliness that I didn't want, and Christian tradition told me that it was because something was wrong with ME, even though I am one of the kindest, most loving, most God-fearing people you're likely to meet in real life.
If I, a gay man, were to fool a woman into being my beard, marry her, and have kids with her, that would be a supreme act of cruelty. What woman deserves to be tied to a man who doesn't really want to touch her and can't truly be her lover? What child deserves to be born to parents who are alienated from each other, just going through the motions because one of them is trying to fulfill societal expectations? By living a lie of being "straight," I would hurt people. Better to let her find a good man who will be able to love her at every level; let their children have parents who truly trust and love each other. Would it be fair to you if a lesbian were to lie to you and get you to marry her? Would you be happy in a marriage where she regards you as physically revolting? Would it be fair to your children for her to harbor such a secret? No, you want a woman who is absolutely enthralled by you. Is it fair of you to expect me to live a different standard?
So the choice your philosophy leaves me with is: 1) Be deceitful and build a life on a lie, resulting in innocents being deeply harmed, or 2) be lonely for the rest of my life (which also does nothing to address your concern of declining birthrates). Are YOU displaying God's love by leaving me trapped in that choice? Or are you choosing your traditional dogmas over God's commandment to love your neighbor?
"A number of gay men report incontinence after repeated encounters, meaning they need diapers because of anal sex." Agreed, it's not healthy. It's also a myth. There is a fetishist subculture, maybe about 5-10% of gays, who just want bigger and bigger stuff shoved into them. These guys damage themselves and can have the problems you mention. Run of the mill anal sex causes no such issues. An erection is smaller than that firm poo you had the other day. If pushing one of those out on a daily basis doesn't cause you permanent damage, then neither will anal sex cause a gay man permanent damage. Find a straight woman who's into anal and ask her if she's incontinent. There's your answer.
"Marriage is the model between Christ and man, played out between man and woman." I absolutely agree, and I have two parents, five siblings, and 14 niblings whom I adore who are all practitioners or products of that model. It's an ideal, one that needs to be the norm if society is to survive. But that's not the path God set me on when he built my brain structure. Your ideal should be the norm, but to say that God expects it as an absolute is Christian dogma, cannot be supported from scripture, and has been utterly refuted in my mind by means of painful personal experience. He expects us to be moral people, but homosexuality isn't a factor in that standard.
"You advocate for a society free to 'do what thou will'" No, and don't hit me with that straw man argument. You're insinuating that Satanic influence has led me to my position, and I don't appreciate it. I have done nothing but denounce bad behavior. I think gay men are happiest when they find a good man to commit to and live a peaceful, monogamous life. That's what I advocate, and in my experience that's what the majority of gay men are looking for. So don't feed me that bullshit.
I used to think like you - that there was something wrong with being gay. I tried to be straight for 20 years of my adult life, because that's what I was told God wanted of me. It didn't work; it did a lot of damage. But it also forced me to seek my own relationship with God rather than trust those who claim to know him. For that, it was worth it.
You know what God told me, once I had enough faith to listen? That he doesn't care about homosexuality. He expects us to love one another and to respect each others' agency, and to act in accordance with those values. He also showed me how the traditional Christian view of the Bible is incorrect on the topic, being based off of mistranslations and out-of-context interpretations. We can go into that if you like, and I can show you exactly how each passage cited from scripture is incorrectly applied. Suffice to say, after millennia being passed through the hands of men, both honest and deceitful, the original truths have not survived unscathed in the arbitrary compilation that we today call the Bible. To say that "the Bible has never been wrong" is to read it in an exceedingly selective fashion. God's word has never been wrong, but not everything in the Bible is God's word, and not every Christian tradition and dogma is found in the Bible.
After 20 years of trying to see it your way, I have identified every flaw in your thinking, because they used to be flaws in my thinking.
"Sexual deviancy is the #1 cause of declining birthrates..." Yes, and it ain't because of the gays. Gays are 4-5% of the population and always have been. You have rightly mentioned heterosexual deviancy; if you want to address declining birthrates, you ought to be focusing on that rather than turning gays into the scapegoat for heterosexual misbehavior - it's a really bad argument to say that there aren't enough babies because too many straight people get tricked or led into being gay. It's utterly ridiculous. If you're born straight, you're straight. I wouldn't ever try to persuade you to think otherwise, and I expect the same respect for the fact that I was born gay. I wouldn't have chosen it, believe you me, particularly with my Christian upbringing. My life has been filled with loneliness that I didn't want, and Christian tradition told me that it was because something was wrong with ME, even though I am one of the kindest, most loving, most God-fearing people you're likely to meet in real life.
If I, a gay man, were to fool a woman into being my beard, marry her, and have kids with her, that would be a supreme act of cruelty. What woman deserves to be tied to a man who doesn't really want to touch her and can't truly be her lover? What child deserves to be born to parents who are alienated from each other, just going through the motions because one of them is trying to fulfill societal expectations? By living a lie of being "straight," I would hurt people. Better to let her find a good man who will be able to love her at every level; let their children have parents who truly trust and love each other. Would it be fair to you if a lesbian were to lie to you and get you to marry her? Would you be happy in a marriage where she regards you as physically revolting? Would it be fair to your children for her to harbor such a secret? No, you want a woman who is absolutely enthralled by you. Is it fair of you to expect me to live a different standard?
So the choice your philosophy leaves me with is: 1) Be deceitful and build a life on a lie, resulting in innocents being deeply harmed, or 2) be lonely for the rest of my life (which also does nothing to address your concern of declining birthrates). Are YOU displaying God's love by leaving me trapped in that choice? Or are you choosing your traditional dogmas over God's commandment to love your neighbor?
"A number of gay men report incontinence after repeated encounters, meaning they need diapers because of anal sex." Agreed, it's not healthy. It's also a myth. There is a fetishist subculture, maybe about 5-10% of gays, who just want bigger and bigger stuffed shoved into them. These guys damage themselves and can have the problems you mention. Run of the mill anal sex causes no such issues. An erection is smaller than that firm poo you had the other day. If pushing one of those out on a daily basis doesn't cause you permanent damage, then neither will anal sex cause a gay man permanent damage. Find a straight woman who's into anal and ask her if she's incontinent. There's your answer.
"Marriage is the model between Christ and man, played out between man and woman." I absolutely agree, and I have two parents, five siblings, and 14 niblings whom I adore who are all practitioners or products of that model. It's an ideal, one that needs to be the norm if society is to survive. But that's not the path God set me on when he built my brain structure. Your ideal should be the norm, but to say that God expects it as an absolute is Christian dogma, cannot be supported from scripture, and has been utterly refuted in my mind by means of painful personal experience. He expects us to be moral people, but homosexuality isn't a factor in that standard.
"You advocate for a society free to 'do what thou will'" No, and don't hit me with that straw man argument. You're insinuating that Satanic influence has led me to my position, and I don't appreciate it. I have done nothing but denounce bad behavior. I think gay men are happiest when they find a good man to commit to and live a peaceful, monogamous life. That's what I advocate, and in my experience that's what the majority of gay men are looking for. So don't feed me that bullshit.
I used to think like you - that there was something wrong with being gay. I tried to be straight for 20 years of my adult life, because that's what I was told God wanted of me. It didn't work; it did a lot of damage. But it also forced me to seek my own relationship with God rather than trust those who claim to know him. For that, it was worth it.
You know what God told me, once I had enough faith to listen? That he doesn't care about homosexuality. He expects us to love one another and to respect each others' agency, and to act in accordance with those values. He also showed me how the traditional Christian view of the Bible is incorrect on the topic, being based off of mistranslations and out-of-context interpretations. We can go into that if you like, and I can show you exactly how each passage cited from scripture is incorrectly applied. Suffice to say, after millennia being passed through the hands of men, both honest and deceitful, the original truths have not survived unscathed in the arbitrary compilation that we today call the Bible. To say that "the Bible has never been wrong" is to read it in an exceedingly selective fashion. God's word has never been wrong, but not everything in the Bible is God's word.
After 20 years of trying to see it your way, I have identified every flaw in your thinking, because they used to be flaws in my thinking.
"Sexual deviancy is the #1 cause of declining birthrates..." Yes, and it ain't because of the gays. Gays are 4-5% of the population and always have been. You have rightly mentioned heterosexual deviancy; if you want to address declining birthrates, you ought to be focusing on that rather than turning gays into the scapegoat for heterosexual misbehavior - it's a really bad argument to say that there aren't enough babies because too many straight people get tricked or led into being gay. It's utterly ridiculous. If you're born straight, you're straight. I wouldn't ever try to persuade you to think otherwise, and I expect the same respect for the fact that I was born gay. I wouldn't have chosen it, believe you me, particularly with my Christian upbringing. My life has been filled with loneliness that I didn't want, and Christian tradition told me that it was because something was wrong with ME, even though I am one of the kindest, most loving, most God-fearing people you're likely to meet in real life.
If I, a gay man, were to fool a woman into being my beard, marry her, and have kids with her, that would be a supreme act of cruelty. What woman deserves to be tied to a man who doesn't really want to touch her and can't truly be her lover? What child deserves to be born to parents who are alienated from each other, just going through the motions because one of them is trying to fulfill societal expectations? By living a lie of being "straight," I would hurt people. Better to let her find a good man who will be able to love her at every level; let their children have parents who truly trust and love each other. Would it be fair to you if a lesbian were to lie to you and get you to marry her? Would you be happy in a marriage where she regards you as physically revolting? Would it be fair to your children for her to harbor such a secret? No, you want a woman who is absolutely enthralled by you. Is it fair of you to expect me to live a different standard?
So the choice your philosophy leaves me with is: 1) Be deceitful and build a life on a lie, resulting in innocents being deeply harmed, or 2) be lonely for the rest of my life (which also does nothing to address your concern of declining birthrates). Are YOU displaying God's love by leaving me trapped in that choice? Or are you choosing your traditional dogmas over God's commandment to love your neighbor?
"A number of gay men report incontinence after repeated encounters, meaning they need diapers because of anal sex." Agreed, it's not healthy. It's also a myth. There is a fetishist subculture, maybe about 5-10% of gays, who just want bigger and bigger stuffed shoved into them. These guys damage themselves and can have the problems you mention. Run of the mill anal sex causes no such issues. An erection is smaller than that firm poo you had the other day. If pushing one of those out on a daily basis doesn't cause you permanent damage, then neither will anal sex cause a gay man permanent damage. Find a straight woman who's into anal and ask her if she's incontinent. There's your answer.
"Marriage is the model between Christ and man, played out between man and woman." I absolutely agree, and I have two parents, five siblings, and 14 niblings whom I adore who are all practitioners or products of that model. It's an ideal, one that needs to be the norm if society is to survive. But that's not the path God set me on when he built my brain structure. Your ideal should be the norm, but to say that God expects it as an absolute is Christian dogma, cannot be supported from scripture, and has been utterly refuted in my mind by means of painful personal experience. He expects us to be moral people, but homosexuality isn't a factor in that standard.