...He'd appreciate beauty like all right-minded people do

Of course. I was illustrating a point of priority and drawing a contrast. Think of the scripture where Christ chastizes the religious leaders, using the parable about the inside and outside of a cup in Luke 11:39.

What I don't think He'd do is walk in and start telling everyone that they're "doing it wrong" for making beautiful things in His name.

😂 No, he wouldn't. He'd tell them that they're doing it wrong for a myriad of other, more important reasons, just as He did during His earthly ministry!

I also think you worship your own mind over an external, objective God

Well you certainly have the right to think that of me and I wish that I could've presented myself better than for you to conclude it. For what it's worth, a brief bit about my walk of faith:

I was born again when I first heard the Gospel, and I mean really heard it, not the usual confusing wash of dogma I had heard growing up. The immediate words that spilled out of my mouth were "That's who Jesus is?!", followed by a period of the most intense crying (joyous) I had ever experienced. I quite literally learned "who Jesus was" and what it meant, what He did, and that I didn't have to worry about going to hell anymore because He saved me, I just didn't KNOW it, despite being inundated with the aformentioned wash of dogmas. None of that stuff ever really made any sense at all to me, and the concept of the next life terrified me.

What took place over the following years was an almost rabid quest for more. I was absolutely engrossed. I looked here, there, and everywhere for more information about Jesus, Christianity, prophecy, do's and don'ts, which church to go to, which ones to avoid, what different verses and words meant, the identities of various people in scripture and chronologies, and on and on. I watched several televangelists faithfully every day. I was consumed with all things Christianity, and was trying to find a place for myself in it. I was also immediately and totally repulsed by anything worldly or immoral. I couldn't watch a tv show to save my life unless it was a sermon or movie about Jesus. This aspect has relaxed greatly as I better understood God's grace, but that's another topic entirely.

I hadn't really grasped the concept of misinfo / disinfo within what I'll loosely call 'Christendom'. It would be a few more years, and after being consistantly confused and left with holes in my understanding by the various preachers I listened to, as well as the local churches I visited, that I begun to seriously question the denominations and conflicting views on what it means to be a Christian and on doctrinal issues. This opened a door I have yet to satisfactorily consider closed as I am still honing in on many fronts.

The relevent front to our apparent disagreement is the identity of the Catholic church. I presume you to believe that it's Christ's true church, while I am confident in it being MYSTERY BABYLON, MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS IN THE EARTH, from Rev. 17:5. I did not adopt this view based on a few zealous anti-Catholics, but in my ongoing studies into Daniel, the Olivet Discourse, and Revelation, as well as secular exposès and historical accounts regarding that church, I cannot fathom another candidate for that title on earth. (If you can, I'd be happy to hear you out). Also, please note that I consider her many "daughters" in my stance and do not seek to exclude them. There are no doubt plenty of Protestant institutions, as well as the various secret societies around the world, who are guilty of being "partakers of her sins", and will "receive ... of her plagues" (Rev. 18:4) and so any genuine believers within those organizations should "come out of her ...". Likewise, I consider the numerous genuine believers who are Catholics, and I have the same desire for them as I do the non-Catholic believers in The Lord Jesus Christ. I will admit, this nuanced view has taken me some time to arrive at, and I am likely guilty of over-generalizing in my zeal to expose what I find to be insititutions of wickedness cloaked in Christian clothing. For this I apologize and pray that any loss suffered to the faith of any brother or sister in Christ be restored 7-fold and that the Lord would perfectly rebuke me in my conscience.

Overall I argue that MYSTERY BABYLON has been a secret continuation and ultimate consummation (in the RCC institution) of satanic human control, spanning all the way back to the Tower of Babel. I am almost to the point of identifying organized religion ITSELF as a failed endeavor, as it all seems to be networked together into one giant satanic syndicate at the top (Rome & Israel to lesser degree), but due to the organizational structures of the very first churches I can't conclude this yet. IF those churches were set up in less-than-ideal ways, it wasn't made clear in the NT, else God simply worked with what was, despite it being inherently flawed. Nevertheless the template seems to be completely failing at the present time, but that's anecdoctal and somewhat irrelivent to the discussion for now. I will say that, at the very least, the concept of an authoritative heirarchy which encompasses anything beyond a single, local church, seems QUITE susceptable to satanic subversion, and perhaps should be done away with completely, though this would obviously up-end the entire world, so I don't really know how it could be done.

And for the record, I didn't downvote you.

I hate when that happens. Kek

Having a chat with someone you disagree with and some ghost comes in and downdoots it and now it looks like you're being petty 😆

o7 fren, I'm used to the ghost downdoots. At least you're willing to discuss this stuff

...He'd appreciate beauty like all right-minded people do

Of course. I was illustrating a point of priority and drawing a contrast. Think of the scripture where Christ chastizes the religious leaders, using the parable about the inside and outside of a cup in Luke 11:39.

What I don't think He'd do is walk in and start telling everyone that they're "doing it wrong" for making beautiful things in His name.

😂 No, he wouldn't. He'd tell them that they're doing it wrong for a myriad of other, more important reasons, just as He did during His earthly ministry!

I also think you worship your own mind over an external, objective God

Well you certainly have the right to think that of me and I wish that I could've presented myself better than for you to conclude it. For what it's worth, a brief bit about my walk of faith:

I was born again when I first heard the Gospel, and I mean really heard it, not the usual confusing wash of dogma I had heard growing up. The immediate words that spilled out of my mouth were "That's who Jesus is?!", followed by a period of the most intense crying (joyous) I had ever experienced. I quite literally learned "who Jesus was" and what it meant, what He did, and that I didn't have to worry about going to hell anymore because He saved me, I just didn't KNOW it, despite being inundated with the aformentioned wash of dogmas. None of that stuff ever really made any sense at all to me, and the concept of the next life terrified me.

What took place over the following years was an almost rabid quest for more. I was absolutely engrossed. I looked here, there, and everywhere for more information about Jesus, Christianity, prophecy, do's and don'ts, which church to go to, which ones to avoid, what different verses and words meant, the identities of various people in scripture and chronologies, and on and on. I watched several televangelists faithfully every day. I was consumed with all things Christianity, and was trying to find a place for myself in it. I was also immediately and totally repulsed by anything worldly or immoral. I couldn't watch a tv show to save my life unless it was a sermon or movie about Jesus. This aspect has relaxed greatly as I better understood God's grace, but that's another topic entirely.

I hadn't really grasped the concept of misinfo / disinfo within what I'll loosely call 'Christendom'. It would be a few more years, and after being consistantly confused and left with holes in my understanding by the various preachers I listened to, as well as the local churches I visited, that I begun to seriously question the denominations and conflicting views on what it means to be a Christian and on doctrinal issues. This opened a door I have yet to satisfactorily consider closed as I am still honing in on many fronts.

The relevent front to our apparent disagreement is the identity of the Catholic church. I presume you to believe that it's Christ's true church, while I am confident in it being MYSTERY BABYLON, MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS IN THE EARTH, from Rev. 17:5. I did not adopt this view based on a few zealous anti-Catholics, but in my ongoing studies into Daniel, the Olivet Discourse, and Revelation, as well as secular exposès and historical accounts regarding that church, I cannot fathom another candidate for that title on earth. (If you can, I'd be happy to hear you out). Also, please note that I consider her many "daughters" in my stance and do not seek to exclude them from my. There are no doubt plenty of Protestant institutions, as well as the various secret societies around the world, who are guilty of being "partakers of her sins", and will "receive ... of her plagues" (Rev. 18:4) and so any genuine believers within those organizations should "come out of her ...". Likewise, I consider the numerous genuine believers who are Catholics, and I have the same desire for them as I do the non-Catholic believers in The Lord Jesus Christ. I will admit, this nuanced view has taken me some time to arrive at, and I am likely guilty of over-generalizing in my zeal to expose what I find to be insititutions of wickedness cloaked in Christian clothing. For this I apologize and pray that any loss suffered to the faith of any brother or sister in Christ be restored 7-fold and that the Lord would perfectly rebuke me in my conscience.

Overall I argue that MYSTERY BABYLON has been a secret continuation and ultimate consummation (in the RCC institution) of satanic human control, spanning all the way back to the Tower of Babel. I am almost to the point of identifying organized religion ITSELF as a failed endeavor, as it all seems to be networked together into one giant satanic syndicate at the top (Rome & Israel to lesser degree), but due to the organizational structures of the very first churches I can't conclude this yet. IF those churches were set up in less-than-ideal ways, it wasn't made clear in the NT, else God simply worked with what was, despite it being inherently flawed. Nevertheless the template seems to be completely failing at the present time, but that's anecdoctal and somewhat irrelivent to the discussion for now. I will say that, at the very least, the concept of an authoritative heirarchy which encompasses anything beyond a single, local church, seems QUITE susceptable to satanic subversion, and perhaps should be done away with completely, though this would obviously up-end the entire world, so I don't really know how it could be done.

And for the record, I didn't downvote you.

I hate when that happens. Kek

Having a chat with someone you disagree with and some ghost comes in and downdoots it and now it looks like you're being petty 😆

o7 fren, I'm used to the ghost downdoots. At least you're willing to discuss this stuff

...He'd appreciate beauty like all right-minded people do

Of course, are you replying to my comment on if He walked into St. Peter's Basilica from the other thread? I was illustrating a point of priority and drawing a contrast. Think of the scripture where Christ chastizes the religious leaders, using the parable about the inside and outside of a cup in Luke 11:39.

What I don't think He'd do is walk in and start telling everyone that they're "doing it wrong" for making beautiful things in His name.

😂 No, he wouldn't. He'd tell them that they're doing it wrong for a myriad of other, more important reasons, just as He did during His earthly ministry!

I also think you worship your own mind over an external, objective God

Well you certainly have the right to think that of me and I wish that I could've presented myself better than for you to conclude it. For what it's worth, a brief bit about my walk of faith:

I was born again when I first heard the Gospel, and I mean really heard it, not the usual confusing wash of dogma I had heard growing up. The immediate words that spilled out of my mouth were "That's who Jesus is?!", followed by a period of the most intense crying (joyous) I had ever experienced. I quite literally learned "who Jesus was" and what it meant, what He did, and that I didn't have to worry about going to hell anymore because He saved me, I just didn't KNOW it, despite being inundated with the aformentioned wash of dogmas. None of that stuff ever really made any sense at all to me, and the concept of the next life terrified me.

What took place over the following years was an almost rabid quest for more. I was absolutely engrossed. I looked here, there, and everywhere for more information about Jesus, Christianity, prophecy, do's and don'ts, which church to go to, which ones to avoid, what different verses and words meant, the identities of various people in scripture and chronologies, and on and on. I watched several televangelists faithfully every day. I was consumed with all things Christianity, and was trying to find a place for myself in it. I was also immediately and totally repulsed by anything worldly or immoral. I couldn't watch a tv show to save my life unless it was a sermon or movie about Jesus. This aspect has relaxed greatly as I better understood God's grace, but that's another topic entirely.

I hadn't really grasped the concept of misinfo / disinfo within what I'll loosely call 'Christendom'. It would be a few more years, and after being consistantly confused and left with holes in my understanding by the various preachers I listened to, as well as the local churches I visited, that I begun to seriously question the denominations and conflicting views on what it means to be a Christian and on doctrinal issues. This opened a door I have yet to satisfactorily consider closed as I am still honing in on many fronts.

The relevent front to our apparent disagreement is the identity of the Catholic church. I presume you to believe that it's Christ's true church, while I am confident in it being MYSTERY BABYLON, MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS IN THE EARTH, from Rev. 17:5. I did not adopt this view based on a few zealous anti-Catholics, but in my ongoing studies into Daniel, the Olivet Discourse, and Revelation, as well as secular exposès and historical accounts regarding that church, I cannot fathom another candidate for that title on earth. (If you can, I'd be happy to hear you out). Also, please note that I consider her many "daughters" in my stance and do not seek to exclude them from my. There are no doubt plenty of Protestant institutions, as well as the various secret societies around the world, who are guilty of being "partakers of her sins", and will "receive ... of her plagues" (Rev. 18:4) and so any genuine believers within those organizations should "come out of her ...". Likewise, I consider the numerous genuine believers who are Catholics, and I have the same desire for them as I do the non-Catholic believers in The Lord Jesus Christ. I will admit, this nuanced view has taken me some time to arrive at, and I am likely guilty of over-generalizing in my zeal to expose what I find to be insititutions of wickedness cloaked in Christian clothing. For this I apologize and pray that any loss suffered to the faith of any brother or sister in Christ be restored 7-fold and that the Lord would perfectly rebuke me in my conscience.

Overall I argue that MYSTERY BABYLON has been a secret continuation and ultimate consummation (in the RCC institution) of satanic human control, spanning all the way back to the Tower of Babel. I am almost to the point of identifying organized religion ITSELF as a failed endeavor, as it all seems to be networked together into one giant satanic syndicate at the top (Rome & Israel to lesser degree), but due to the organizational structures of the very first churches I can't conclude this yet. IF those churches were set up in less-than-ideal ways, it wasn't made clear in the NT, else God simply worked with what was, despite it being inherently flawed. Nevertheless the template seems to be completely failing at the present time, but that's anecdoctal and somewhat irrelivent to the discussion for now. I will say that, at the very least, the concept of an authoritative heirarchy which encompasses anything beyond a single, local church, seems QUITE susceptable to satanic subversion, and perhaps should be done away with completely, though this would obviously up-end the entire world, so I don't really know how it could be done.

And for the record, I didn't downvote you.

I hate when that happens. Kek

Having a chat with someone you disagree with and some ghost comes in and downdoots it and now it looks like you're being petty 😆

o7 fren, I'm used to the ghost downdoots. At least you're willing to discuss this stuff