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GreatAwakening
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Reason: None provided.

Look...I get how you feel, but honestly, I think he's right. Let me give you an example:

I was raised Mormon. I served a Mormon mission and graduated from BYU. Then I left the Mormon church. This was not easy for my parents, obviously. I decided though that I needed to maintain some connections with my family because I truly did love them and I knew if I was ever going to have any hope of changing their minds about even the smallest of things that I was going to need some of those connections. I couldn't be viewed as an enemy in any more ways than I already was.

So I stayed a BYU sports fan. If you know anything about BYU, they are a Mormon school, and they have a very strict, and in my opinion, very inappropriate honor code that requires students to abstain from drugs, alcohol, and any pre or extramarital sex. You're also not allowed to leave the church while a student or be automatically expelled (no longer the case though). If students are found to break these rules, even if they proactively confessed to them, they can face serious scholastic consequences, including suspension and expulsion (I was suspended for a semester once for having my girlfriend in my bedroom).

As a BYU fan, this can get extremely frustrating, as top athletes it seems are kicked out of our football and basketball programs routinely at the expense of better records, bowl invites, etc. For example, perhaps some of you remember Jimmer Fredette? He won national player of the year his senior year and was once called by Kevin Durant on twitter as "the greatest scorer on the planet." That team was amazing. We were ranked, I think in the top 10 when we beat the 6th ranked team in the country leading up to March Madness. The very next day, we got news that our starting power forward/center, Brandon Davies, bound for pro ball in either Europe or possibly the NBA, a key part of our team, would no longer be with us, on account of the team learning that he had gotten his girlfriend pregnant. BYU was knocked out in the Elite 8 that year. If we had retained Davies, who knows what could have happened.

That happens all the time at BYU. But BYU fans, convinced that BYU is supposed to be a missionary tool for the Mormon church, almost always stand up for these suspensions. It's infuriating.

So my dad was no different. I have heard him defend BYU hundreds of times in my life. But I actually went there, and didn't leave the church until after I graduated. And I had a different perspective on it. But I knew my dad would be resistant to it so I devised a way to get him to consider a new perspective without triggering his ego.

First, I acknowledged certain things about BYU. I acknowledged that it WAS a good way for the church to gain notoriety, and for Mormons to be seen as normal and mainstream, which would attract interest in the religion.

Second, I acknowledged that the BYU experience was indeed unique. For example, most every class is taught by an active Mormon and begins with a class prayer. Also, you're required to take scripture classes that teach about the Old Testament, the New Testament and the Mormons scriptures (Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price) whether you're Mormon or not. BYU also has no classes between 10 am and 1pm on Tuesday mornings, and all restaurants, offices, and services are closed so all students and faculty, if they wish, can head over the Marriott basketball center to watch a religious "Devotional" designed to increase faith in God and the church and so-forth.

It's a unique place.

So how was I going to convince my dad? First, I acknowledged those things, but then I posed the question "Dad, let's say you're a non-Mormon athlete who, against his better judgment, and in the face of other college offers, for whatever reason, chooses BYU. Then, because you failed to live like a perfect Mormon while there, you get kicked out, which can be a huge strain on your life. What do you think your opinion of Mormons is going to be at that point? How much do you think that will help the missionary efforts of the Mormon church? Now, let's say they're not kicked out. As I said, BYU is a unique place. Almost everyone goes to church every sunday, every Monday night they meet up with their "ward" for a "family home evening" where they share gospel messages and make friends and meet people they can date, and I've already gone over the unique experience on campus during school itself. So maybe you're not acting like a perfect Mormon. Maybe you slip up now and then and have a drink, or have sex or whatever, but that steady drip, drip, drip of positive gospel messages is always there. You see how happy so many people are living what you might have viewed as an unnecessarily strict life, and you graduate, never having faced suspensions or expulsions. Whether those students join the Mormon church or not, how do you think THEIR opinions are going to impact the mission of the Mormon church after they leave? Wouldn't that be better for everyone?"

Then a miracle happened. My dad looked at me and said "How did you do that?" I said "What?" "How did you just change my mind about something I was so sure about for the past 40 years?" I said, "Is that what just happened?" "Yeah. I've never thought of it that way. Never."

Look, I realize that was a very long story, and if you got all the way through it, I appreciate the patience, but to make a long story short, I agree with OP. There are better ways to change minds. I don't know who said this but there's a quote I've heard a bunch of times and I really think it's true: "In order to convince a man of anything you must first convince him that you are truly his friend."

Maybe that's what the great awakening is all about.

2 years ago
1 score
Reason: Original

Look...I get how you feel, but honestly, he's right. Let me give you an example:

I was raised Mormon. I served a Mormon mission and graduated from BYU. Then I left the Mormon church. This was not easy for my parents, obviously. I decided though that I needed to maintain some connections with my family because I truly did love them and I knew if I was ever going to have any hope of changing their minds about even the smallest of things that I was going to need some of those connections. I couldn't be viewed as an enemy in any more ways than I already was.

So I stayed a BYU sports fan. If you know anything about BYU, they are a Mormon school, and they have a very strict, and in my opinion, very inappropriate honor code that requires students to abstain from drugs, alcohol, and any pre or extramarital sex. You're also not allowed to leave the church while a student or be automatically expelled (no longer the case though). If students are found to break these rules, even if they proactively confessed to them, they can face serious scholastic consequences, including suspension and expulsion (I was suspended for a semester once for having my girlfriend in my bedroom).

As a BYU fan, this can get extremely frustrating, as top athletes it seems are kicked out of our football and basketball programs routinely at the expense of better records, bowl invites, etc. For example, perhaps some of you remember Jimmer Fredette? He won national player of the year his senior year and was once called by Kevin Durant on twitter as "the greatest scorer on the planet." That team was amazing. We were ranked, I think in the top 10 when we beat the 6th ranked team in the country leading up to March Madness. The very next day, we got news that our starting power forward/center, Brandon Davies, bound for pro ball in either Europe or possibly the NBA, a key part of our team, would no longer be with us, on account of the team learning that he had gotten his girlfriend pregnant. BYU was knocked out in the Elite 8 that year. If we had retained Davies, who knows what could have happened.

That happens all the time at BYU. But BYU fans, convinced that BYU is supposed to be a missionary tool for the Mormon church, almost always stand up for these suspensions. It's infuriating.

So my dad was no different. I have heard him defend BYU hundreds of times in my life. But I actually went there, and didn't leave the church until after I graduated. And I had a different perspective on it. But I knew my dad would be resistant to it so I devised a way to get him to consider a new perspective without triggering his ego.

First, I acknowledged certain things about BYU. I acknowledged that it WAS a good way for the church to gain notoriety, and for Mormons to be seen as normal and mainstream, which would attract interest in the religion.

Second, I acknowledged that the BYU experience was indeed unique. For example, most every class is taught by an active Mormon and begins with a class prayer. Also, you're required to take scripture classes that teach about the Old Testament, the New Testament and the Mormons scriptures (Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price) whether you're Mormon or not. BYU also has no classes between 10 am and 1pm on Tuesday mornings, and all restaurants, offices, and services are closed so all students and faculty, if they wish, can head over the Marriott basketball center to watch a religious "Devotional" designed to increase faith in God and the church and so-forth.

It's a unique place.

So how was I going to convince my dad? First, I acknowledged those things, but then I posed the question "Dad, let's say you're a non-Mormon athlete who, against his better judgment, and in the face of other college offers, for whatever reason, chooses BYU. Then, because you failed to live like a perfect Mormon while there, you get kicked out, which can be a huge strain on your life. What do you think your opinion of Mormons is going to be at that point? How much do you think that will help the missionary efforts of the Mormon church? Now, let's say they're not kicked out. As I said, BYU is a unique place. Almost everyone goes to church every sunday, every Monday night they meet up with their "ward" for a "family home evening" where they share gospel messages and make friends and meet people they can date, and I've already gone over the unique experience on campus during school itself. So maybe you're not acting like a perfect Mormon. Maybe you slip up now and then and have a drink, or have sex or whatever, but that steady drip, drip, drip of positive gospel messages is always there. You see how happy so many people are living what you might have viewed as an unnecessarily strict life, and you graduate, never having faced suspensions or expulsions. Whether those students join the Mormon church or not, how do you think THEIR opinions are going to impact the mission of the Mormon church after they leave? Wouldn't that be better for everyone?"

Then a miracle happened. My dad looked at me and said "How did you do that?" I said "What?" "How did you just change my mind about something I was so sure about for the past 40 years?" I said, "Is that what just happened?" "Yeah. I've never thought of it that way. Never."

Look, I realize that was a very long story, and if you got all the way through it, I appreciate the patience, but to make a long story short, I agree with OP. There are better ways to change minds. I don't know who said this but there's a quote I've heard a bunch of times and I really think it's true: "In order to convince a man of anything you must first convince him that you are truly his friend."

Maybe that's what the great awakening is all about.

2 years ago
1 score