Quick math: at the current top human (rocket) speed of 25,000 mph, it would take 81,000 years to reach the second nearest star, Alpha Centauri. At 1/10 the speed of light, this would still take 42.4 years, and this could only be done in a spacecraft that required no onboard consumable fuel. Another take: at an efficiency baseline of 100 watts per 100 miles transmission, it would take 6.21x10^25 watts of power to send a signal to A. Centauri, or 4 billion times the amount of electricity currently produced on Earth (or 3500X the amount of solar radiation input from the Sun). Sending just this signal would destroy all life on earth. Now I believe for certain that there are thousand of worlds full of life out there, but they just aren't going to reach earth, ever, as long as they are bound by the physical laws of our known universe.
You can't believe UFOs have arrived here without denying ALL KNOWN PHYSICS
You can't believe UFOs have arrived here without denying ALL KNOWN PHYSICS
Yes you can. It's quite simple. You admit it yourself when you used the word "KNOWN." With our current knowledge of physics, we can't yet conceive of a way that we can replicate but that doesn't mean someone else hasn't found a way.
Just because we don't know something yet doesn't mean that it might not be real. Think about all the things that ancient people didn't know about. Radiation. Stellar evolution. Planetary orbits. Does that mean those weren't real? Of course not. We just didn't have any models of science that described them yet.
Given our current knowledge we can only guess at some possible routes that might be used by someone else for the kinds of FTL travel and communication necessary to bypass these limitations we believe space-time and quantum mechanics impose. That doesn't mean someone else hasn't found ways around them.
Maybe it's possible to have FTL communication and travel in some way? Perhaps we find that quantum mechanics allows for other kinds of entanglement than we have yet discovered. Perhaps a subspace that objects can travel through. Or stabilized wormholes of some kind. Or maybe some kind of warp engines.
You'd have to assume that our current physics understanding is absolutely complete to think that there aren't options available to another space faring civilization.
Isn't that the exact opposite of Occam's razor? There is no faster than light travel, change my mind....
crickets....you got nothing except hope.
The next level of the argument is this: a race of beings that can travel the speed of light and/or live for 81,000 years would have nothing to say to us, no means of communicating to us, and no reason to share or negotiate anything. We would seem like bacteria to them at best. If they did arrive, they could surely never crash or be shot down, considering their abilities.
Extraterrestrial life is an absolute statistical certainty. Intergalactic travel however, cannot happen according to every shred of evidence accrued by human existence. But don't let that stop you.
Occam's razor is a rule of thumb that says one should prefer a simpler explanation to a more complex one if it is sufficient to explain the observations completely. Occam's razor is not a rule that determines what is real. It's a rule that we use to simplify our explanations if they get unnecessarily complicated. In the case of history, a common example is heliocentrism vs geocentrism. The parsimonious explanation is the orbit of the sun rather than the earth.
With regards to the UFO phenomenon we are discussing multiple hypotheses. One of these is the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis. (ETH) There are enough observations in the UFO phenomenon that make it extremely difficult to rely on solely natural explanations for the phenomenon. There are certainly cases where the phenomenon is a misidentification but there are also cases which defy such explanations. There are multiple possible explanations and each scenario is different.
It's certainly possible that some of these observations are the result of human technology. (i.e. government secrets) But it's also apparent that some of these observations don't fit any physics that we can currently assign to even the most hidden of dark projects that humans might have created. In that sense, parsimony actually works in a multivariant way and sometimes the ETH explanation is actually simpler than any of the others.
The overarching tendency of many non-UFO accepting researchers, however, is to pigeonhole all observations as some kind of contrivance like "swamp gas" which are often insufficient to explain the data or are simply bullshit. Science doesn't work by consensus of experts. Science works by admitting our ignorance and coming up with models to explain the observations.
You admit that other intelligent species probably exist. The universe is billions of years old. Why do you assume then that it is impossible for them to be more advanced in science than us? Why do you assume that our methods of physics are the necessarily the most complete? There's a whole lot we don't know about in science. Dark Energy or the physics of Singularities ring a bell? Perhaps someone else has found methods to use physics that are not subject to the limitations that we find in our methods? That's not a thing you can assume is false just on the basis of your preference. You don't know what other species would do with their physics.
And who says other species would want to communicate with us? Maybe they they see us as a resource to exploit for their own gain? Maybe they put us under a quarantine and treat us like we treat zoo animals? You don't know.
And who knows? Just because you're more advanced doesn't make you immune to attacks. Native Americans were able to harm Conquistators despite a huge technology difference. Maybe the little human plains apes just got lucky once or twice.
The Keyword here is= KNOWN! I did witness a couple of times "ALL KNOWN PHYSICS" defying flight patterns at enormous speeds. We are NOT the center of the Universe nor the masters of all Knowledge.
100% of everything you experience every day of your life obeys the physical laws of the universe. You literally have zero evidence of anything that refutes these laws. I'm not asking if your mind is flexible enough to fantasize an alternate reality, who cares about that? And you're right, I'm incapable of entertaining theories that contradict 100% of known physical science, but I consider that an advantage.
Quick math: at the current top human (rocket) speed of 25,000 mph, it would take 81,000 years to reach the second nearest star, Alpha Centauri. At 1/10 the speed of light, this would still take 42.4 years, and this could only be done in a spacecraft that required no onboard consumable fuel. Another take: at an efficiency baseline of 100 watts per 100 miles transmission, it would take 6.21x10^25 watts of power to send a signal to A. Centauri, or 4 billion times the amount of electricity currently produced on Earth (or 3500X the amount of solar radiation input from the Sun). Sending just this signal would destroy all life on earth. Now I believe for certain that there are thousand of worlds full of life out there, but they just aren't going to reach earth, ever, as long as they are bound by the physical laws of our known universe. You can't believe UFOs have arrived here without denying ALL KNOWN PHYSICS
Yes you can. It's quite simple. You admit it yourself when you used the word "KNOWN." With our current knowledge of physics, we can't yet conceive of a way that we can replicate but that doesn't mean someone else hasn't found a way.
Just because we don't know something yet doesn't mean that it might not be real. Think about all the things that ancient people didn't know about. Radiation. Stellar evolution. Planetary orbits. Does that mean those weren't real? Of course not. We just didn't have any models of science that described them yet.
Given our current knowledge we can only guess at some possible routes that might be used by someone else for the kinds of FTL travel and communication necessary to bypass these limitations we believe space-time and quantum mechanics impose. That doesn't mean someone else hasn't found ways around them.
Maybe it's possible to have FTL communication and travel in some way? Perhaps we find that quantum mechanics allows for other kinds of entanglement than we have yet discovered. Perhaps a subspace that objects can travel through. Or stabilized wormholes of some kind. Or maybe some kind of warp engines.
You'd have to assume that our current physics understanding is absolutely complete to think that there aren't options available to another space faring civilization.
Isn't that the exact opposite of Occam's razor? There is no faster than light travel, change my mind.... crickets....you got nothing except hope. The next level of the argument is this: a race of beings that can travel the speed of light and/or live for 81,000 years would have nothing to say to us, no means of communicating to us, and no reason to share or negotiate anything. We would seem like bacteria to them at best. If they did arrive, they could surely never crash or be shot down, considering their abilities. Extraterrestrial life is an absolute statistical certainty. Intergalactic travel however, cannot happen according to every shred of evidence accrued by human existence. But don't let that stop you.
Occam's razor is a rule of thumb that says one should prefer a simpler explanation to a more complex one if it is sufficient to explain the observations completely. Occam's razor is not a rule that determines what is real. It's a rule that we use to simplify our explanations if they get unnecessarily complicated. In the case of history, a common example is heliocentrism vs geocentrism. The parsimonious explanation is the orbit of the sun rather than the earth.
With regards to the UFO phenomenon we are discussing multiple hypotheses. One of these is the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis. (ETH) There are enough observations in the UFO phenomenon that make it extremely difficult to rely on solely natural explanations for the phenomenon. There are certainly cases where the phenomenon is a misidentification but there are also cases which defy such explanations. There are multiple possible explanations and each scenario is different.
It's certainly possible that some of these observations are the result of human technology. (i.e. government secrets) But it's also apparent that some of these observations don't fit any physics that we can currently assign to even the most hidden of dark projects that humans might have created. In that sense, parsimony actually works in a multivariant way and sometimes the ETH explanation is actually simpler than any of the others.
The overarching tendency of many non-UFO accepting researchers, however, is to pigeonhole all observations as some kind of contrivance like "swamp gas" which are often insufficient to explain the data or are simply bullshit. Science doesn't work by consensus of experts. Science works by admitting our ignorance and coming up with models to explain the observations.
You admit that other intelligent species probably exist. The universe is billions of years old. Why do you assume then that it is impossible for them to be more advanced in science than us? Why do you assume that our methods of physics are the necessarily the most complete? There's a whole lot we don't know about in science. Dark Energy or the physics of Singularities ring a bell? Perhaps someone else has found methods to use physics that are not subject to the limitations that we find in our methods? That's not a thing you can assume is false just on the basis of your preference. You don't know what other species would do with their physics.
And who says other species would want to communicate with us? Maybe they they see us as a resource to exploit for their own gain? Maybe they put us under a quarantine and treat us like we treat zoo animals? You don't know.
And who knows? Just because you're more advanced doesn't make you immune to attacks. Native Americans were able to harm Conquistators despite a huge technology difference. Maybe the little human plains apes just got lucky once or twice.
Glad you included "KNOWN" :).... Known to who?
The Keyword here is= KNOWN! I did witness a couple of times "ALL KNOWN PHYSICS" defying flight patterns at enormous speeds. We are NOT the center of the Universe nor the masters of all Knowledge.
Oh Boy.... want another Rabbit hole?
Particle Theory is junk science. Explain how magnetic "particles" pass through everything. I'll wait.
Our reality is a coaxial circuit, dielectric and magnetic. Torsion fields, frequency, cycles...
100% of everything you experience every day of your life obeys the physical laws of the universe. You literally have zero evidence of anything that refutes these laws. I'm not asking if your mind is flexible enough to fantasize an alternate reality, who cares about that? And you're right, I'm incapable of entertaining theories that contradict 100% of known physical science, but I consider that an advantage.