Romans 13:1-14
Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same; for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil. Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience’ sake. For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing. Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor. Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. For this, “You shall not commit adultery , You shall not murder , You shall not steal , You shall not covet ,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself .” Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. Do this, knowing the time, that it is already the hour for you to awaken from sleep; for now salvation is nearer to us than when we believed. The night is almost gone, and the day is near. Therefore let us lay aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. Let us behave properly as in the day, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual promiscuity and sensuality, not in strife and jealousy. But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh in regard to its lusts.
Just because God establishes the authority doesn't mean it is being executed according to His intentions. The same Caesar to whom God granted authority to also executed His Son at the urging of the Pharisees. The stated purpose for God giving the "authority of the sword" to ruling authorities in Romans 13 is "punishing evildoers," was it not?
And isn't the crime of the Deep State that it punishes the innocent and lets the guilty go free? A state which punishes the innocent is a clear aberration from God's design. I think it is fair to suggest that we should understand the aberration of government as a result of sin.
And your citation of the Papacy is actually rather relevant since it sort of gets into my other post in this thread. The people of Magdeburg were exactly what you cited. They rejected the Papacy yet believed God established just authority according to Romans 13 as all Lutherans do. In reality, I believe the Pope is an office of antichrist acting in pretense against the original basis of its authority. The Bishop of Rome was one of the metropolitan leaders of the early Christian faith but over time they abused the claims of Peter's succession as a claim to authority above all Christians and bolstered such claims with forged documentations. This was rejected first by the Eastern Orthodox during the Great Schism and later by the Protestants who were fed up ith Papal abuses. The Pope chose to excommunicate and Martin Luther and others were forced to establish a Christianity which relied on the Bible not the Pope as its basic authority.
Their proposed resolution of the early Lutherans in Magdeburg was to recognize that each individual magistrate had an accounting to God and it is the duty of a proper God fearing magistrate to protect his or her citizens. And as with all Patriots, the tree of liberty was watered with their blood when the Pope inspired the Holy Roman Emperor to murder them in cold blood. But this is the beginning of what led to the eventual establishment of Western democracies where the magistracy is the property of the citizenry rather than hereditary rulers. Much of the rhetoric of the American Revolution revolves around establishment of the injustice and tyranny of the rulers they rejected and the intention to establish a more perfect and just system.
The issue now is that We the People are being usurped by would be monarchs who are themselves engaged in rebellion against just authority.
God does not have authority over world governments, at least pre Trump. The DS has held authority for a long time. I believe you may be correct in saying, God gave the "authority of the sword" over to ruling authorities but I would call them a lessor god or an angel. Very similar to the Hindu texts, Brahman is the Supreme Lord and the ruling authorities are the trinity of Shiva, Vishnu and Brahma lessor gods with different aspects who rule over this planet. Allowing us as "seeds" to experience evil as a learning experience. To Integrate the Shadow as Carl Jung proposed. To strengthen our resolve.
The God we refer to in Christianity is the source of reality or ground of being itself. If something exists then it necessarily depends on God’s power somehow. God’s goodness is like that of rain, causing crops to grow and thus providing life for all.
Likewise, evil in the absolute sense is merely a difference between His character and the harm being done by one of His creatures. It’s not like you can void reality itself but you can make it quite hellish by denying God’s character and intent.
It’s funny that you mentioned Hinduism though. I had a very interesting discussion with a Hindu about the nature of Brahma and he clearly states that Brahma isn’t the eternal existence of God in their religion either. He’s more like a helper that is working for the eternal God.
Anyway that’s not my belief system so I’m not gonna dig into that. But you’re very wrong that God’s authority is contingent in nature. It’s more accurate to think of God as a personification of reality itself than like Brahma.
I have a tendency to compare religions for their similarities. Comparative mythology. Each sect of Christianity seems to have their own explanation of the nature of God, I find it very confusing, so many denominations. I've found Hinduism to be a little more clear cut.
You're confusing Brahma with Brahman (one ends with an N). Brahman is the supreme God whereas Brahma is more like an Angel or lessor god. Very easy to confuse. Brahman is not often worshipped because he is so unconceivable to humans and uses the trinity to mediate.
I would encourage you to study all religions and find the similarities, not that you have to have faith in them.
You are very easy to debate with and I'll admit, you have changed my viewpoint on Romans 13, though not inline with your interpretation, a different one than I started with and a more interesting one, so Thank You.
True. I think a lot of the problem is that we had to have a few reformations to keep our faith from turning into the Pope’s personal dominion. Protestantism has been a mixed blessing.
Aha so that’s what I got wrong then. Got it. I knew I’d read about Para-Brahman but it’s still very confusing as you said.
Oh indeed. As you can guess, I do a bit of this already. It’s definitely helpful to learn about other beliefs.