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posted 4 years ago by Brooklyn_Patriot_76 4 years ago by Brooklyn_Patriot_76 +43 / -0
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– RiverWolf 1 point 4 years ago +1 / -0

No, he had a role though in ending the martyrdoms of Christians, and in fact encouraged Christianity throughout the Roman Empire -- possibly, one can argue, that when persecution of Christians ceased, it became easier to be Christian, and that some may have "converted" only externally, not in their heart. But this is not Constantine's fault, is it?

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– 6daysandrest 1 point 4 years ago +1 / -0

Constantine outlawed Sabbath worship and implemented Sunday worship as a matter of law. This is a violation of the 4th commandment and also foretold in both Daniel (seek to change times and laws of God) and in Ezekiel 8 (sun worship).

If you think the Sabbath is abolished then you need to provide evidence from the Bible. I have also read some of the apocrypha and some of the letters of Ignatius and am also aware of translation controversies in those letters. Controversies that undermine the argument that the earliest churches gave up Sabbath worship for Sunday worship. Try to use something from the Bible.

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– RiverWolf 1 point 4 years ago +1 / -0

There is a good evidence the earliest Christians gathered "on the first day of the week" to worship and celebrate the Resurrection (as Catholics would call it, they had mass). <g>

This business of requiring all evidence to come solely out of a Catholic book called the Bible is itself not scriptural -- nothing in the Bible says that it is the sole source of Revelation, and in fact, there are passages which infer an oral source of revelation. This makes perfect sense, given:

a) The apostles (first bishops) were given 24x7 in-person training, by Jesus himself, for the 3 years of his public ministry. And scripture is clear that when Jesus spoke to them privately, he spoke clearly, and explained things, and did not resort to parables as he often did with the crowds. Scripture is also clear that scripture itself does not, and could not, contain even a small fraction of all that Jesus said and did. Yet, there were witnesses who were present for much of what he did and said, and they were given authority in the church as leaders and decision makers.

b) The Bible, specifically the New Testament portions of it, did not exist at the start of the Church (which we might agree was at Pentecost), and in fact there was not an official canon, or list of which books were or were not to be included in the Bible, until the 300's, when this was decided in a council.

c) Given the Church was entrusted with the authority to bind and loose, to forgive sins in Jesus' name, to safeguard and pass on all things taught by Christ that are important for salvation, and clearly had the authority to make important decisions regarding doctrine and the contents of the Bible itself, so also the Church had the authority to designate Sunday as the Lord's Day. That this was so was considered self-evident for most of the last 2,000 years, by virtually all Christians, including most non-Catholics, so I do not think you and I can improve upon that discussion here.

You mention Ignatious -- that's great, there are several others worth reading -- and do not be swayed by translation red-herrings. There are folks who felt the need to downplay the important testimony of these early writers, but it is quite clear they say what they say, and were understood that way, for millenia.

On the Lord's Day/Sabbath issue, there also are non-christian sources, such as Josephus, who mentions that the Christians gathered for worship on the 1st day of the week.

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