So my daughters and sons in laws (brothers) have decided to worship God as Messianic Jews (they have chosen Jesus as Saviour and Believe he is the Son of God) because rather than the Baptist church they were raised in which tended to avoid many tough subjects and lightly skim through others rather than delve in depth to learn, teach and understand, they wanted to learn and use entire Bible (as God intended)
My dilemma is that they have sent me a link following several discussions regarding why not to celebrate Christmas due to pagan roots So I read up on the history of Christmas. Yes, the cut tree, the red and green lights and ribbons and the wreath and mistletoe all have pagan origins, however no one knows the exact date of Jesus birth since they did not keep track and from what I gather, it sounds like worshipping God as Christians was banned and punishable by death in many countries and cultures blending these cultures with celebrating Jesus birth became a way of basically worshipping in secret and the gifts represent the gifts the wise men brought To Mary and Joseph. And the lights are like blending in Hannukah as well. Never did get into the whole Santa thing.
Both our son in laws parents (friends of ours) and my husband and I still want to get everyone together and celebrate Christmas and believe the kids are being legalistic. Currently one of our daughters and her family wish to go do something else because they don’t agree.
Praying they come around,
May I get yall’s thoughts please.
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Chris Pinto usually covers this every year at Christmas. Here is last year's episode:
From Christmas 2020:
http://www.noiseofthunderradio.com/show-downloads/2020/12/25/notr-the-annual-christmas-show-12252020.html
Here are some notes:
199AD Churches began celebrating the birth of Christ
Christmas trees are not Asherah poles. Search for "asherah poles" online to see the difference.
Christmas trees don't show up until the time of Martin Luther. One Lutheran historian claims that Luther was the first one to have a Christmas tree but it's not believed by many Lutherans.
Some believe Christmas trees are a fulfilment of prophecy:
Isiah 60:13 The glory of Lebanon shall come unto thee, the fir tree, the pine tree and the box together to beautify the place of my sanctuary; and I will make the place of my feet glorious.
From Christmas 2019:
http://www.noiseofthunderradio.com/show-downloads/2019/12/25/notr-the-annual-christmas-show-122519.html
He explains that Jeremiah 10 refers to carving idols out of wood and overlaying them with gold or silver. These were then worshipped as gods--nothing to do with the modern Christmas tree. (BTW he makes reference to the making of idols of Mary.)
He does not do Santa Claus and the elves, but focuses on the birth of Jesus Christ.
"The practice of remembering the things that God has done on an annual basis or a regular basis and teaching it to your kids, this is something that we're shown over and over again in the old testament."
The Christmas Tree is a post reformation invention and often traced to Martin Luther, though not believed by all historians.
Q. Is the Christmas date, Dec 25 the feast of Saturnalia?
A. No, that was Dec 17th - 23rd.
The 25th was actually chosen because from Jewish tradition, a prophet dies on the day of his conception. The date of Christ's death was said to be March 25, so that was chosen as the date of his conception. So you can add 9 months months which takes you to Dec 25.
Some will try to argue that it's the worship of Saul Invictus, but in reality Saul Invictus worship begins in 274 AD, about 75 years after the first recorded Christmas celebration by Christians.
He says that he has spoken before that the worship of Saul Invictus seems to have been imposed to try and cover up the Christian holiday; not the other way around.
These are some of the scriptures that my daughter brought to my attention.
Jeremiah 10:3-4 3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
Isaiah 57:5 You burn with lust among the oaks and under every spreading tree; you sacrifice your children in the ravines and under the overhanging crags.
Jeremiah 2:20 “Long ago you broke off your yoke and tore off your bonds; you said, ‘I will not serve you!’ Indeed, on every high hill and under every spreading tree you lay down as a prostitute.
Jeremiah 3:6 During the reign of King Josiah, the LORD said to me, “Have you seen what faithless Israel has done? She has gone up on every high hill and under every spreading tree and has committed adultery there.
As I said before, Jer 10:3-4 is about making idols (statues) out of wood that represent false gods, not about worshipping trees themselves.
Always check against the KJV and read John Gill's commentary.
The KVJ version of Isaiah 57:5 is:
And reading John Gills commentary suggests that under the trees is just a location where they would worship their wooden idols, just as on the hilltops is another location.
https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/gills-exposition-of-the-bible/isaiah-57-5.html
Note: with this next reference, the commentary on the last phrase of Jer 2:20 has been erroneously buried under the footnotes section:
https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/gills-exposition-of-the-bible/jeremiah-2-20.html
https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/gills-exposition-of-the-bible/jeremiah-3-6.html
Curious why you responded the same twice
I edited the post to fix a typo, which must have sent it to you twice?