Most Catholics honest with themselves will tell you same as we are seeing it now, throughout history the church has had good popes & bad ones.
Imperfect men in an institution & there was abuse on indulgences, which was addressed by the 16th century in the wake of the reformation.
The Church has historically recognised that, for a Christian, there are two different forms of sin: Mortal and Venial. ‘Mortal’ sin is a deliberately intended act that is so serious in its nature, that it constitutes a radical rejection of Christ and His sacrifice for us, and ruptures our relationship with God. ‘Venial’ sin, on the other hand, is an act that, whilst sinful, is not so serious that it formally entails destroying our union with God. This is confessed by St John in Holy Scripture, when he tells us that “All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal” (1 John 5:17).
Sin entails a twofold punishment. On the one hand, there is the eternal punishment of Hell, which is suffered by anyone who does not repent of Mortal sin (through an immediate act of contrition to God, and then the Sacrament of Confession thereafter). On the other, however, there is temporal punishment.
Temporal punishment accrues to every sin, so whilst venial sin (of which any faithful Christian should, and does, nevertheless repent) does not lead to Hell, it does have that consequence. A fact of life, however, is that we often do not experience the temporal punishment of our sins on Earth, and our even our penances after the fact do not correspond to the punishment we are owed.
This is why the Church has also historically confessed that at our death, if we are Christians in a ‘state of grace’ (that is, a state of saving friendship with God) when we die, any outstanding temporal punishment we did not endure on Earth we will go through in a state called ‘Purgatory’, before we enter Heaven. This state involves the cleansing of our souls of any venial sins we had committed before we die.
We see this in the references that St Paul makes to the cleansing of those Christian clergy who build the Church poorly during their lives, in 1 Corinthians 3:10-15. Using the imagery of a purifying fire, the Apostle relates that after we have died, our earthly works are ‘tested’. Our good works will survive the fire, purified as precious metals and stones, whereas any bad works will be consumed like flammable straw, and though we will ‘suffer loss’ we will be saved, “but only as through fire”.
God has not left us, however, without a way of dealing with the temporal punishments due to our sin, and avoiding purgative suffering after death. When Our Lord established the Church, He gave St Peter the power of the Keys of His Kingdom (Matthew 16:18-19, cf. Isaiah 22:20-22). This authority, possessed by the Church today through St Peter’s successors, the popes, extends to the temporal punishment due to sin. Just as the Church may absolve sin itself through the power given to her by Christ (John 20:21-23), so she may remit the temporal punishment due to sin.
You know… this may seem dogmatic to people but for those that believe, it keeps people constantly trying to maintain a state of grace. You may find it silly, but I likewise find the thought of “once saved, always saved” equally silly.
You know your “gotcha” questions are easily searchable on Google.
This Masonic false Pope pushes the Vaccine - I ain’t listening to him. Vigano is pretty much saying what we all already knew, this guy is a fraud.
Non-Catholics often confuse the pope’s gift of ‘infallibility’ with ‘impeccability’. They think the Catholic Church is claiming her Popes are sinless or that the Pope is claiming inspiration from God for every pronouncement he makes. This is not the case. In fact, infallibility is attached to his office, not his person. It is a protective gift, not a creative one introducing new revelation.
The infallibility of the pope is certainly a doctrine that has been more clearly understood over time, but is not one that was invented in 1870. It is clear in Scripture that Christ promised the protection of the Holy Spirit, saying, "I will ask the Father and he will give you another Paraclete—to be with you always; the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot accept, since it neither sees him nor recognizes him because he remains with you and will be within you . . . . the Paraclete, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send will remind you of all that I have told you" (John 14: 16-17, 26). "When the Spirit of truth comes He will guide you to all truth . . ." (John 16:14). Peter shares the gift of infallibility (a negative gift in the sense it keeps him from teaching error on matters of faith and morals) with the other apostles and their successors, the bishops.
The "pope" (an Italian word meaning "father") and the bishops together are the magisterium of the Church, that is, the teaching authority. As Jesus said, "He who listens to you, listens to me" (Luke 10:16); "all that you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven" (Mt. 18:18). When bishops of the world meet together summoned by the papacy, they meet in ecumenical council, which if held at the Vatican is referred to as a Vatican council. They are usually called infrequently only at times of pivotal or critical moments in the life of the Church.
For example, the Council of Jerusalem about 50 A.D. discussed in Acts of the Apostles, chapter15 was a precursor of later councils. After that Council made its decision to not require Gentile Christians to be circumcised as desired by the Judaizers, it wrote to the Church that " . .it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden . . ." The first formal ecumenical council was that of Nicaea in 325 A.D., which condemned the Arian heresy and declared that Christ was consubstantial with the Father.
Papal infallibility is a doctrine of the Catholic church. If you don't recognize all popes as infallible, you disagree with Catholic doctrine.
Like Martin Luther and all protestants.
You say there were a few "bad popes", but indulgences went on for a span of almost 500 years.
Why were people able to pay for salvation in 1566 but not 1567?
Kind of funny how indulgences started 1095, Martin Luther posted his thesis in 1517, indulgences ended in 1567. Sounds like Catholic dogma yielded to pressure from protestant arguments?
I don't know how you can seriously continue being an apologist for Catholic dogma while simultaneously disagreeing with parts of it. To me, it seems I'm conversing with a mostly-Catholic protestant.
Most Catholics honest with themselves will tell you same as we are seeing it now, throughout history the church has had good popes & bad ones. Imperfect men in an institution & there was abuse on indulgences, which was addressed by the 16th century in the wake of the reformation.
The Church has historically recognised that, for a Christian, there are two different forms of sin: Mortal and Venial. ‘Mortal’ sin is a deliberately intended act that is so serious in its nature, that it constitutes a radical rejection of Christ and His sacrifice for us, and ruptures our relationship with God. ‘Venial’ sin, on the other hand, is an act that, whilst sinful, is not so serious that it formally entails destroying our union with God. This is confessed by St John in Holy Scripture, when he tells us that “All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal” (1 John 5:17).
Sin entails a twofold punishment. On the one hand, there is the eternal punishment of Hell, which is suffered by anyone who does not repent of Mortal sin (through an immediate act of contrition to God, and then the Sacrament of Confession thereafter). On the other, however, there is temporal punishment.
Temporal punishment accrues to every sin, so whilst venial sin (of which any faithful Christian should, and does, nevertheless repent) does not lead to Hell, it does have that consequence. A fact of life, however, is that we often do not experience the temporal punishment of our sins on Earth, and our even our penances after the fact do not correspond to the punishment we are owed.
This is why the Church has also historically confessed that at our death, if we are Christians in a ‘state of grace’ (that is, a state of saving friendship with God) when we die, any outstanding temporal punishment we did not endure on Earth we will go through in a state called ‘Purgatory’, before we enter Heaven. This state involves the cleansing of our souls of any venial sins we had committed before we die.
We see this in the references that St Paul makes to the cleansing of those Christian clergy who build the Church poorly during their lives, in 1 Corinthians 3:10-15. Using the imagery of a purifying fire, the Apostle relates that after we have died, our earthly works are ‘tested’. Our good works will survive the fire, purified as precious metals and stones, whereas any bad works will be consumed like flammable straw, and though we will ‘suffer loss’ we will be saved, “but only as through fire”.
God has not left us, however, without a way of dealing with the temporal punishments due to our sin, and avoiding purgative suffering after death. When Our Lord established the Church, He gave St Peter the power of the Keys of His Kingdom (Matthew 16:18-19, cf. Isaiah 22:20-22). This authority, possessed by the Church today through St Peter’s successors, the popes, extends to the temporal punishment due to sin. Just as the Church may absolve sin itself through the power given to her by Christ (John 20:21-23), so she may remit the temporal punishment due to sin.
You know… this may seem dogmatic to people but for those that believe, it keeps people constantly trying to maintain a state of grace. You may find it silly, but I likewise find the thought of “once saved, always saved” equally silly.
You know your “gotcha” questions are easily searchable on Google.
This Masonic false Pope pushes the Vaccine - I ain’t listening to him. Vigano is pretty much saying what we all already knew, this guy is a fraud.
Non-Catholics often confuse the pope’s gift of ‘infallibility’ with ‘impeccability’. They think the Catholic Church is claiming her Popes are sinless or that the Pope is claiming inspiration from God for every pronouncement he makes. This is not the case. In fact, infallibility is attached to his office, not his person. It is a protective gift, not a creative one introducing new revelation.
The infallibility of the pope is certainly a doctrine that has been more clearly understood over time, but is not one that was invented in 1870. It is clear in Scripture that Christ promised the protection of the Holy Spirit, saying, "I will ask the Father and he will give you another Paraclete—to be with you always; the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot accept, since it neither sees him nor recognizes him because he remains with you and will be within you . . . . the Paraclete, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send will remind you of all that I have told you" (John 14: 16-17, 26). "When the Spirit of truth comes He will guide you to all truth . . ." (John 16:14). Peter shares the gift of infallibility (a negative gift in the sense it keeps him from teaching error on matters of faith and morals) with the other apostles and their successors, the bishops.
The "pope" (an Italian word meaning "father") and the bishops together are the magisterium of the Church, that is, the teaching authority. As Jesus said, "He who listens to you, listens to me" (Luke 10:16); "all that you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven" (Mt. 18:18). When bishops of the world meet together summoned by the papacy, they meet in ecumenical council, which if held at the Vatican is referred to as a Vatican council. They are usually called infrequently only at times of pivotal or critical moments in the life of the Church.
For example, the Council of Jerusalem about 50 A.D. discussed in Acts of the Apostles, chapter15 was a precursor of later councils. After that Council made its decision to not require Gentile Christians to be circumcised as desired by the Judaizers, it wrote to the Church that " . .it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden . . ." The first formal ecumenical council was that of Nicaea in 325 A.D., which condemned the Arian heresy and declared that Christ was consubstantial with the Father.
Papal infallibility is a doctrine of the Catholic church. If you don't recognize all popes as infallible, you disagree with Catholic doctrine.
Like Martin Luther and all protestants.
You say there were a few "bad popes", but indulgences went on for a span of almost 500 years.
Why were people able to pay for salvation in 1566 but not 1567?
Kind of funny how indulgences started 1095, Martin Luther posted his thesis in 1517, indulgences ended in 1567. Sounds like Catholic dogma yielded to pressure from protestant arguments?
I don't know how you can seriously continue being an apologist for Catholic dogma while simultaneously disagreeing with parts of it. To me, it seems I'm conversing with a mostly-Catholic protestant.