Lots of assumptions here. Why wouldn't Jesus just include the rapture in the timeline he taught? Instead he teaches a timeline that makes a pre-trib rapture impossible. It's his own prophecy. You're inadvertently suggesting that he both failed to mentioned it and warned us not to add anything to his prophecy, but at the same time expects us to stitch together vague clues? And for what. What purpose do we serve the Kingdom by being absent when the unsaved need us most? During the testing of the world in tribulations.
Matthew 24 KJV 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
This is the "catching up" of the church. This is not Christ coming down to Earth, defeating Gog and Magog, restoring Israel and setting up the Millennial Kingdom.
What purpose do we serve the Kingdom by being absent when the unsaved need us most? During the testing of the world in tribulations.
The people of Israel require signs. God is going to give them signs. He doesn't need our help casting the stars of Heaven down to Earth. They'll get the message. Now once they believe, after the tribulation, with the New Testament being an entirely foreign book to them, guess who shows them the Way?
I mean he did not include it in Revelations, the book which he does include a curse for adding things to.
The "one shall be taken, one left behind" verses are more consistent with his teaching about the wheat and the tares. Rapturists are misusing those verses to promote their theory. In both Mathew and Luke those verses are connected in context to acts of judgement, the flood and the destruction of Sodom. Those being taken are not the ones being rescued. The ones being rescued are actually told to flee and they will be protected. That is consistent with Jesus's prophecy. He says woe to those who are in Judea, they should run for the mountains. He says you don't even have time to pack. Yet, we're supposed to say no that's just for the jews, see they're told to pray their flight is not on the sabbath. But aren't we supposed to be keeping the commandments which say to remember the Sabbath and keep it holy? We have layers of false doctrine confusing the church today.
I think the sabbath will be restored by the church during the tribulations... but that's a whole other discussion. short version, sun worship will not be brought into the kingdom.
Oh yeah... gog and magog are destroyed at the end of the 1000 years of satan's lockup. that is also clearly said in Revelations.
I mean he did not include it in Revelations, the book which he does include a curse for adding things to.
He did include it and the book also curses you for removing words, which is what you are doing. I add nothing and I know that the scripture in Rev 20, which you are misinterpreting as a general resurrection, is talking about the combined rapture of the church and the tribulation saints. Notice how it proceeds the marriage of the bride and Christ's return with His saints.
Revelation 19 KJV 1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
How did the "much" people get into Heaven, if there hasn't been a resurrection yet?
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Who is the bride of Christ?
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
That this does not follow a chronological order is easily understood. Chapter 19 is John's perspective from Earth as he "saw the Heavens open." Chapter 20 is the same thing seen from the perspective of Heaven, "I saw a throne." What I interpret "this is the first resurrection" to mean is that it came in stages (explain the harvest in Chapter 13, which is the "gleaning" of the tribulation saints. Explain the souls under the altar, receiving white rainment in Chapter 7. Explain the virgins in Chapter 14.) The purpose of this statement is more to clarify that the "rest of the dead" will not rise for a thousand years, in my opinion. Don't get stuck on one verse and expect it to answer all questions.
Yet, we're supposed to say no that's just for the jews, see they're told to pray their flight is not on the sabbath.
What do you believe that "rightly dividing the Word" means? There is no doubt that there are separate dispensations and you just proved it. Am I in Judea? Why do I care if it is the sabbath, I've been told to not follow the old law, my salvation comes through the Work of Jesus Christ alone. Not of my work. Don't appoint yourself to the wrath, it's your choice, you can believe in Christ alone or you can believe that we have to work to be saved, a people in which Paul curses because it is impossible to be saved by works, no one is this perfect except Christ.
I think the sabbath will be restored by the church during the tribulations... but that's a whole other discussion.
Three new entities, new heavens, new Earth and new Jerusalem. New Heavens are for the gentiles, new Earth is for the nation of Israel (earthly promise) and the New Jerusalem is for the church (there is no temple within because God is the temple.) See if the scriptures do not tell you exactly this. The sabbath laws and dietary laws do return but only to Israel on the Earth (see Ezekiel 40-48 for details.)
Oh yeah... gog and magog are destroyed at the end of the 1000 years of satan's lockup
You are correct, I was making haste this morning, I meant to say when Christ returns and destroys the nations that come up against Israel after the tribulations.
The sabbath is established in the creation week, and God's feasts are established by God as feasts. Jews made a mess of their covenant. What law did Cane violate? God's law was always present and always will be. There is no point in fooling ourselves about this. I am not saying that one must do this or that for salvation. But salvation is not the finish line. God has a purpose for you beyond living in paradise.
If pre-trip rapture were Jesus's plan then he could plainly state it. I'm not taking anything away from his prophecy. Not everything is meant to play out in chronological order - but some things are definitely put in a timeline position. The seals and trumpets give order but not time of occurrence. You just cannot have another resurrection before the one in Rev 20. So there can be many ways to analyze Rev19 but you can rule out that it implies an enormous rapture event without Jesus directly mentioning it.
I went back and read Rev19 again. My attention is drawn to the beginning lines of chapters 19 and 18. So to get the full picture of what's going on we should look at 17, 18 and 19. In short, wrath is poured out upon Babylon and Babylon is fallen, is fallen.
Those opening lines give some order of events. "And after these things..." So Babylon is destroyed under the wrath of judgement before the "marriage supper of the Lamb".
And we saw that those who took part in the first resurrection are present in the kingdom before the wrath (Rev15) "standing on the sea of glass mixed with fire".
Obviously the "first resurrection of Rev20" is an event that happens before the wrath and before Babylon is fallen and before the marriage supper of the Lamb. It all works in order. There is no need for a rapture before the first resurrection.
We don't know how long after we enter into the kingdom will the marriage supper be. Kingdom time is going to be amazing for sure.
Lots of assumptions here. Why wouldn't Jesus just include the rapture in the timeline he taught? Instead he teaches a timeline that makes a pre-trib rapture impossible. It's his own prophecy. You're inadvertently suggesting that he both failed to mentioned it and warned us not to add anything to his prophecy, but at the same time expects us to stitch together vague clues? And for what. What purpose do we serve the Kingdom by being absent when the unsaved need us most? During the testing of the world in tribulations.
He did include it -
Matthew 24 KJV 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
This is the "catching up" of the church. This is not Christ coming down to Earth, defeating Gog and Magog, restoring Israel and setting up the Millennial Kingdom.
What purpose do we serve the Kingdom by being absent when the unsaved need us most? During the testing of the world in tribulations.
The people of Israel require signs. God is going to give them signs. He doesn't need our help casting the stars of Heaven down to Earth. They'll get the message. Now once they believe, after the tribulation, with the New Testament being an entirely foreign book to them, guess who shows them the Way?
I mean he did not include it in Revelations, the book which he does include a curse for adding things to.
The "one shall be taken, one left behind" verses are more consistent with his teaching about the wheat and the tares. Rapturists are misusing those verses to promote their theory. In both Mathew and Luke those verses are connected in context to acts of judgement, the flood and the destruction of Sodom. Those being taken are not the ones being rescued. The ones being rescued are actually told to flee and they will be protected. That is consistent with Jesus's prophecy. He says woe to those who are in Judea, they should run for the mountains. He says you don't even have time to pack. Yet, we're supposed to say no that's just for the jews, see they're told to pray their flight is not on the sabbath. But aren't we supposed to be keeping the commandments which say to remember the Sabbath and keep it holy? We have layers of false doctrine confusing the church today.
I think the sabbath will be restored by the church during the tribulations... but that's a whole other discussion. short version, sun worship will not be brought into the kingdom.
Oh yeah... gog and magog are destroyed at the end of the 1000 years of satan's lockup. that is also clearly said in Revelations.
I mean he did not include it in Revelations, the book which he does include a curse for adding things to.
He did include it and the book also curses you for removing words, which is what you are doing. I add nothing and I know that the scripture in Rev 20, which you are misinterpreting as a general resurrection, is talking about the combined rapture of the church and the tribulation saints. Notice how it proceeds the marriage of the bride and Christ's return with His saints.
Revelation 19 KJV 1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
How did the "much" people get into Heaven, if there hasn't been a resurrection yet?
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Who is the bride of Christ?
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
That this does not follow a chronological order is easily understood. Chapter 19 is John's perspective from Earth as he "saw the Heavens open." Chapter 20 is the same thing seen from the perspective of Heaven, "I saw a throne." What I interpret "this is the first resurrection" to mean is that it came in stages (explain the harvest in Chapter 13, which is the "gleaning" of the tribulation saints. Explain the souls under the altar, receiving white rainment in Chapter 7. Explain the virgins in Chapter 14.) The purpose of this statement is more to clarify that the "rest of the dead" will not rise for a thousand years, in my opinion. Don't get stuck on one verse and expect it to answer all questions.
Yet, we're supposed to say no that's just for the jews, see they're told to pray their flight is not on the sabbath.
What do you believe that "rightly dividing the Word" means? There is no doubt that there are separate dispensations and you just proved it. Am I in Judea? Why do I care if it is the sabbath, I've been told to not follow the old law, my salvation comes through the Work of Jesus Christ alone. Not of my work. Don't appoint yourself to the wrath, it's your choice, you can believe in Christ alone or you can believe that we have to work to be saved, a people in which Paul curses because it is impossible to be saved by works, no one is this perfect except Christ.
I think the sabbath will be restored by the church during the tribulations... but that's a whole other discussion.
Three new entities, new heavens, new Earth and new Jerusalem. New Heavens are for the gentiles, new Earth is for the nation of Israel (earthly promise) and the New Jerusalem is for the church (there is no temple within because God is the temple.) See if the scriptures do not tell you exactly this. The sabbath laws and dietary laws do return but only to Israel on the Earth (see Ezekiel 40-48 for details.)
Oh yeah... gog and magog are destroyed at the end of the 1000 years of satan's lockup
You are correct, I was making haste this morning, I meant to say when Christ returns and destroys the nations that come up against Israel after the tribulations.
The sabbath is established in the creation week, and God's feasts are established by God as feasts. Jews made a mess of their covenant. What law did Cane violate? God's law was always present and always will be. There is no point in fooling ourselves about this. I am not saying that one must do this or that for salvation. But salvation is not the finish line. God has a purpose for you beyond living in paradise.
If pre-trip rapture were Jesus's plan then he could plainly state it. I'm not taking anything away from his prophecy. Not everything is meant to play out in chronological order - but some things are definitely put in a timeline position. The seals and trumpets give order but not time of occurrence. You just cannot have another resurrection before the one in Rev 20. So there can be many ways to analyze Rev19 but you can rule out that it implies an enormous rapture event without Jesus directly mentioning it.
I went back and read Rev19 again. My attention is drawn to the beginning lines of chapters 19 and 18. So to get the full picture of what's going on we should look at 17, 18 and 19. In short, wrath is poured out upon Babylon and Babylon is fallen, is fallen.
Those opening lines give some order of events. "And after these things..." So Babylon is destroyed under the wrath of judgement before the "marriage supper of the Lamb".
And we saw that those who took part in the first resurrection are present in the kingdom before the wrath (Rev15) "standing on the sea of glass mixed with fire".
Obviously the "first resurrection of Rev20" is an event that happens before the wrath and before Babylon is fallen and before the marriage supper of the Lamb. It all works in order. There is no need for a rapture before the first resurrection.
We don't know how long after we enter into the kingdom will the marriage supper be. Kingdom time is going to be amazing for sure.