lot of them just leave of their own volition because they don’t like the job.

And that means that we don’t have lawmakers at the state Capitol who really know what they’re doing. I mean, it takes several years to get up to speed, to have some sort of expertise on some policy area, to be effective, to be good at the job. And by the time they get to that point, a lot of them just end up quitting.

GILGER: Yeah. Is it notable, Hank, what do you think about the fact that all of these resignations came from the Democratic Party?

STEPHENSON: Yeah, I think there’s a you know, there’s a lot of opportunities for Democrats out there right now. So I think that’s part of it. New governor, new administrations across the state with Democratic leaders in them. So there are a lot of different opportunities for them. Rep. Athena Salmon left, for example, to go pursue a work with a pro-choice organization that really wouldn’t have been possible in Arizona a couple of years ago at the same level that it is now.

But the thing that sticks with me is this huge brain drain that we’re seeing from the Democratic caucuses. They already lost their leader in the House and in the Senate last year, Andres Cano — the House Democratic leader — left to go to Harvard, and (former Sen.) Raquel Terán left to run for Congress. So we already had to replace Democratic leadership.

And now four people at once leaving from the House Democratic Caucus. That’s a huge chunk of their members.

GILGER: Let’s talk about the timing, too, Hank, because the Democrats are really hoping to be able to flip one or both of these houses in the next election. They are behind by just a very slim margin in both. And they’ve been talking about this for a long time, I know. But is it any more likely, you think, to happen this time around?

STEPHENSON: Probably. Like you said, they’re only one seat away from tying up either the House or the Senate. I’ve always been pretty skeptical of Democrats’ plans to take over the Legislature, but they have moved those margins so close over the years that now it’s a matter of can they win one seat and not lose any seats?

And I think the real question is that second part of it, which is can they not lose any seats? Because last year they were on track to tie up the state House but lost a seat in a Democratic stronghold. And that seems to be just how it always goes for the Democrats. It’s kind of a Lucy-and-the-football situation. They get so close and then at the last minute they screw something up and end up not being able to achieve those goals.

GILGER: So should they, Hank, have stuck it out? Maybe some of these folks stuck it out and maybe gotten into the majority for once next time around? Like, is this the wrong time to leave?

STEPHENSON: Maybe. It’s certainly more fun in the majority. You can actually get things accomplished as opposed to just voting no on bills and hoping that the governor vetoes them at the end of the day, which is the position that most Democrats are in now. So next year, some of these people who left may be regretting it.

GILGER: Yeah. Did Democrats — very quickly tell me — do you think they expected to have more sway in the Legislature because there is now a Democratic governor in the governor’s office, that’s that’s a turn of events?

STEPHENSON: Yeah, I think so.You can’t really expect the Capitol to change until you change the Capitol. But with having a Democratic governor up there on the ninth floor, I think that a lot of them really hoped that they would be able to not only kind of have say with small amendments, which is the stage that they’re at right now, but actually be able to pass meaningful policy and get it sent up to the governor’s office.

And that’s just not really happening. The Democrats, at their best, are really working around the edges right now, trying to change policy slightly before it gets up to the governor’s office. But that is still not the same as being able to pass the bills that you were sent down there to work on.