EXCLUSIVE: Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano Summoned to Vatican to be Excommunicated | The Gateway Pundit | by Guest Contributor
Guest post by Joe Hoft at JoeHoft.com – republished with permission Breaking News – Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano has been summoned to the Vatican to be Excommunicated by Red Pope Francis.
Sure, that's fair. Once you've gone through Church history you might come away with appreciation for it instead of criticizing it because "it is the traditions of men", when it is the teachings of the Church.
You can probably watch any number of Unitarian vs Trinitarian debates. The conclusion you'll realize is the Trinitarian view takes into account everything being said - 3 revealed as one - whereas Unitarian perspective has to deny specific parts of Scripture to reconcile their worldview. 1 Essence, 3 Hypostasis.
Genesis 3:22
Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”
The original agreed upon Scripture was the Septuagint. Martin Luther (please do research into Protestant founders and what they actually believed vs what's happened today) used the Masoretic texts. While there are and were genuine criticisms of Roman Catholicism, it is not reflective of all Apostolic churches. The Reformation threw the baby out with the bathwater. Interestingly enough, Martin Luther most likely wouldn't have started the Reformation if he had access to Epistles of Clement, which solidified Church doctrine.
When Jesus Christ came, he never said "I leave being a collection of books known as Scripture, henceforth these are your ONLY source of teaching". He promised and left us a Church. There weren't books readily available and the laity has no access to them either. This is why they used stained glass and icons to teach the laity. It wasn't until hundreds of years later that the Bible was canonized, various Churches at the time only has pieces of the canon.
Almost everything was an oral tradition in the early Church. We take for granted our technology and forget what it was actually like back then.
Good luck, you're genuine. I think if you steel man the Trinitarian position as hard as you can, you'll start to see why the Unitarian position doesn't make sense.
Is this the one? https://holycrosschc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Holy-Spirit-St-Basil.pdf
Yeah I've listened to some of Michael Heiser's stuff on "the divine council". It makes sense to me but again not something I've really explored for myself yet.
This? https://files.romanroadsstatic.com/materials/romans/early-christianity/Clement%20of%20RomeV1-0.pdf
Any others you can think of just send em my way and I'll dig in! Cheers fren and thank you for the discussion!
That looks like a summary of it, the full work is a lot longer but these are poorly formatted: https://www.elpenor.org/basil/holy-spirit.asp
This is the edition I recommend. There is a good chance you can find a PDF version of it. https://www.christianbook.com/on-the-holy-spirit/saint-basil-the-great/9780881418767/pd/418767 The chapters, formatting, and preface help understand the text and follow the explanation.
St. Gregory "On the Soul & the Resurrection" - approx 350 A.D
St. Athansius "On the Incarnation" - approx 315A.D
St. Iraneaus - Against Heresies - approx 150 A.D
St. Justin Martyr - 1st/2nd Apologies - 125 A.D
Didache/"The Teaching of the Lord to the Gentiles by the Twelve Apostles" - approx 80-100 A.D
The Epistles of Ignatius - approx 100 A.D
In Ignatius' Epistles he clearly and directly refers to Jesus as God. Who is Ignatius of Antioch? He was a direct disciple of John the Apostle. He was Martyred in Rome. Ignatius and the other Church Fathers present us historical evidence of the beliefs and practices of the Early Church and of Jesus' divinity. This is 200 years before the Council of Nicea which formally decreed the Trinity.
Yes that looks like a copy of Clements first Epistle. In it you'll see that the early Church tradition was being established and a deep worship of Christ.
This is an interesting discussion on Unitarian vs Trinitarian perspectives. There's tons of these that exist, if this is a topic you're really interested in it could be worth listening to in the background. https://youtu.be/u8jp73vNIAI
Good luck to you and God bless you brother/sister and may the Lord have mercy on us all.
Wow, I have lots of homework 😂 Thank you. I'll start hunting em down
With the heavy reading you've sent me down I went and bought this to hopefully speed things up: https://www.amazon.com/Early-Christian-Fathers-Library-Classics/dp/0684829517
I'm hoping to get a good grasp of it all and was wondering if you had read or heard of this book?
I hope you've been doing well.
I haven't read that book but have a copy of one that is very similar
https://www.amazon.com/Apostolic-Fathers-Translation-Lexham-Classics/dp/1683590643
The book you sent looks like a solid text, especially if it gives the texts to read separate from commentary. Any of these books will help to clarify the historicity in Church tradition.
Understanding of history and tradition is what helped solidify my faith. Apart from the historical stuff, you might find this text interesting.
https://www.amazon.com/Philokalia-Complete-Compiled-Nikodimos-Markarios/dp/0571130135
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philokalia
It's a collection of writings from the saints of the Church with a focus on transforming our lives through prayer and communion with God. Very powerful.