If we look at the early Christian belief of those who were closest to Christ there is a frame of thought completely different to modern western bible interpretation.
For St. Paul - the chief enemy of humanity are sin death and the law of Moses. They are linked together holding man in bondage.
St. Paul considers the law of Moses as a type of emergency measure provided by god to deal with a crises of human sin. (Gal 3: 15-29; cf Rom 10:4)
The law of Moses was meant as a tutor (παιδαγωγός) in order to prepare the people of Christ. Gal 3:23-26; Rom 2:14-15; Rom 10:4.
Instead the law was treated by the Jews as goal unto itself and thus became a tyrant. They looked into keeping the law as part of their security and so we say even the law became an idol, no longer leading to god any more.
The unholy alliance between sin and the law is the rule of death. Death is a product of life in which relationships have been broken.
When Jesus is condemned to the cross - and he defeated death - he also defeats sin and Satan. And if the laws of Moses are now of sin - and it’s those same Jewish priests under the laws of Moses who condemned him. Jesus is the breaker of chains. Of human reconnection to god and salvation.
St. Chrysostom says that we are saved through the fire. The hottest fire - and a literal hell on earth that we tread through is the path to salvation and immortality.
Orthodoxy is very suggestive that Άδης (the term used for “hell” in the west) is here on earth. And that all can be saved in passing through hell. Indeed it’s he who is burned most by his time on earth who is made stronger unto god.
Jesus walked up the mount and carried his cross, and took this burden willingly in order to defeat death sin and Satan.
There are so many deviations unfortunately in modern interpretations of scripture.
[b]If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as through fire.
St. John Chrysostom ca. 349-407B/b]
1 Cor. 3:12-15 If any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay, stubble; each man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it is revealed in fire; and the fire shall prove each man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he built thereon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as through fire.
St. John Chrysostom ca. 349-407
Now his meaning is this: If any man have an ill life with a right faith, his faith shall not shelter him from punishment, his work being burnt up. The phrase, shall be burned up, means, shall not endure the violence of the fire. But just as if a man having golden armor on were to pass through a river of fire, he comes from crossing it all the brighter; but if he were to pass through it with hay, so far from profiting, he destroys himself besides; so also is the case in regard of men’s works. For he does not say this as if he were discoursing of material things being burnt up, but with a view of making their fear more intense, and of showing how naked of all defence he is who abides in wickedness. Wherefore he said, He shall suffer loss: lo, here is one punishment: but he himself shall be saved, but so as by fire; lo, again, here is a second. And his meaning is, He himself shall not perish in the same way as his works, passing into nought, but he shall abide in the fire.
He calls it, however, “salvation”, you will say; why, that is the cause of his adding, so as by fire: since we also used to say, It is preserved in the fire, when we speak of those substances which do not immediately burn up and become ashes. For do not at sound of the word fire imagine that those who are burning pass into annihilation. And though he call such punishment “salvation”, be not astonished. For his custom is in things which have an ill sound to use fair expressions, and in good things the contrary. For example, the word “captivity” seems to be the name of an evil thing, but Paul has applied it in a good sense, when he says, Bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ. 2 Corinthians 10:5 And again, to an evil thing he has applied a good word, saying, Sin reigned, Romans 5:21 here surely the term reigning is rather of auspicious sound. And so here in saying, he shall be saved, he has but darkly hinted at the intensity of the penalty: as if he had said, “But himself shall remain forever in punishment”. (Homily 9 on First Corinthians)
I definitely agree there is a different frame of thought in old school Christianity vs modern Christianity and there are a lot of deviations in modern interpretations of scripture.
I didn't grow up in a Christian home and my only knowledge of Christianity was what I saw on TV and how people I knew were Christians acted. I was very opposed to God, or what I thought at the time was God, because of this. I was actively against and full of hatred towards Christians and Christianity.
God revealed himself to me through a series of events and visions at a Crossroads in my life. The most profound was when I was studying Aleister Crowley with some friends and someone they referred to as a guru. We were getting ready to head to a huge occult convention later that day.
All of a sudden all I could see was fire, like I was inside of a huge bonfire, completely surrounded by an inferno. I tried to open and close my eyes but it made no difference, it was all I could see. In addition to this, all I could hear was this intense rumble, like what it sounds like when you are standing beside a freight train going by. There was also a feeling of impending doom that was indescribably brutal.
Before this, I thought the spiritual realm was kind of a joke and didn't really believe in it. To me, the occult was just a cool thing to be into and went well with my lifestyle. A few hours after this I accepted Christ into my heart at the suggestion of someone I trusted. They later turned out to be someone who used Christianity to manipulate me.
Since I didn't know anything about Christianity, have any Christian friends or know of any church I could learn about God at, I got a bunch of books at a thrift store. These were all really sketchy, borderline cult books and this really led me astray towards legalism. I started going to church and ultimately this led me further astray, eventually leading me to abandon my faith. I was a Christian for about 10 years at this point. Modern interpretations definitely led me astray.
After leaving my faith I didn't think much about God other than that if he was real, he wasn't what I had learned at these churches or in the books I read. I recently prayed again for the first time in almost 8 years, largely because of this board.
I think what you posted makes a lot of sense. It really does seem like this life is a test (hellish) at times. My hardships have made me a stronger person and I can see how it would be a path to salvation and immortality. If I didn't go through the struggles I have, I would be a very different person, someone who I would currently be ashamed of.
I appreciate you taking the time to respond to me and what you posted definitely resonates with me. I think you probably felt called to make your original post. I don't post much here as I don't really have much of value to add to the conversation but I just wanted to confirm to you that it was very helpful, at least to me.
Thx for sharing your struggles.
If we look at the early Christian belief of those who were closest to Christ there is a frame of thought completely different to modern western bible interpretation.
For St. Paul - the chief enemy of humanity are sin death and the law of Moses. They are linked together holding man in bondage.
St. Paul considers the law of Moses as a type of emergency measure provided by god to deal with a crises of human sin. (Gal 3: 15-29; cf Rom 10:4)
The law of Moses was meant as a tutor (παιδαγωγός) in order to prepare the people of Christ. Gal 3:23-26; Rom 2:14-15; Rom 10:4.
Instead the law was treated by the Jews as goal unto itself and thus became a tyrant. They looked into keeping the law as part of their security and so we say even the law became an idol, no longer leading to god any more.
The unholy alliance between sin and the law is the rule of death. Death is a product of life in which relationships have been broken.
When Jesus is condemned to the cross - and he defeated death - he also defeats sin and Satan. And if the laws of Moses are now of sin - and it’s those same Jewish priests under the laws of Moses who condemned him. Jesus is the breaker of chains. Of human reconnection to god and salvation.
St. Chrysostom says that we are saved through the fire. The hottest fire - and a literal hell on earth that we tread through is the path to salvation and immortality.
Orthodoxy is very suggestive that Άδης (the term used for “hell” in the west) is here on earth. And that all can be saved in passing through hell. Indeed it’s he who is burned most by his time on earth who is made stronger unto god.
Jesus walked up the mount and carried his cross, and took this burden willingly in order to defeat death sin and Satan.
There are so many deviations unfortunately in modern interpretations of scripture.
[b]If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as through fire. St. John Chrysostom ca. 349-407B/b]
1 Cor. 3:12-15 If any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay, stubble; each man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it is revealed in fire; and the fire shall prove each man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he built thereon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as through fire. St. John Chrysostom ca. 349-407
Now his meaning is this: If any man have an ill life with a right faith, his faith shall not shelter him from punishment, his work being burnt up. The phrase, shall be burned up, means, shall not endure the violence of the fire. But just as if a man having golden armor on were to pass through a river of fire, he comes from crossing it all the brighter; but if he were to pass through it with hay, so far from profiting, he destroys himself besides; so also is the case in regard of men’s works. For he does not say this as if he were discoursing of material things being burnt up, but with a view of making their fear more intense, and of showing how naked of all defence he is who abides in wickedness. Wherefore he said, He shall suffer loss: lo, here is one punishment: but he himself shall be saved, but so as by fire; lo, again, here is a second. And his meaning is, He himself shall not perish in the same way as his works, passing into nought, but he shall abide in the fire.
He calls it, however, “salvation”, you will say; why, that is the cause of his adding, so as by fire: since we also used to say, It is preserved in the fire, when we speak of those substances which do not immediately burn up and become ashes. For do not at sound of the word fire imagine that those who are burning pass into annihilation. And though he call such punishment “salvation”, be not astonished. For his custom is in things which have an ill sound to use fair expressions, and in good things the contrary. For example, the word “captivity” seems to be the name of an evil thing, but Paul has applied it in a good sense, when he says, Bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ. 2 Corinthians 10:5 And again, to an evil thing he has applied a good word, saying, Sin reigned, Romans 5:21 here surely the term reigning is rather of auspicious sound. And so here in saying, he shall be saved, he has but darkly hinted at the intensity of the penalty: as if he had said, “But himself shall remain forever in punishment”. (Homily 9 on First Corinthians)
I definitely agree there is a different frame of thought in old school Christianity vs modern Christianity and there are a lot of deviations in modern interpretations of scripture.
I didn't grow up in a Christian home and my only knowledge of Christianity was what I saw on TV and how people I knew were Christians acted. I was very opposed to God, or what I thought at the time was God, because of this. I was actively against and full of hatred towards Christians and Christianity.
God revealed himself to me through a series of events and visions at a Crossroads in my life. The most profound was when I was studying Aleister Crowley with some friends and someone they referred to as a guru. We were getting ready to head to a huge occult convention later that day.
All of a sudden all I could see was fire, like I was inside of a huge bonfire, completely surrounded by an inferno. I tried to open and close my eyes but it made no difference, it was all I could see. In addition to this, all I could hear was this intense rumble, like what it sounds like when you are standing beside a freight train going by. There was also a feeling of impending doom that was indescribably brutal.
Before this, I thought the spiritual realm was kind of a joke and didn't really believe in it. To me, the occult was just a cool thing to be into and went well with my lifestyle. A few hours after this I accepted Christ into my heart at the suggestion of someone I trusted. They later turned out to be someone who used Christianity to manipulate me.
Since I didn't know anything about Christianity, have any Christian friends or know of any church I could learn about God at, I got a bunch of books at a thrift store. These were all really sketchy, borderline cult books and this really led me astray towards legalism. I started going to church and ultimately this led me further astray, eventually leading me to abandon my faith. I was a Christian for about 10 years at this point. Modern interpretations definitely led me astray.
After leaving my faith I didn't think much about God other than that if he was real, he wasn't what I had learned at these churches or in the books I read. I recently prayed again for the first time in almost 8 years, largely because of this board.
I think what you posted makes a lot of sense. It really does seem like this life is a test (hellish) at times. My hardships have made me a stronger person and I can see how it would be a path to salvation and immortality. If I didn't go through the struggles I have, I would be a very different person, someone who I would currently be ashamed of.
I appreciate you taking the time to respond to me and what you posted definitely resonates with me. I think you probably felt called to make your original post. I don't post much here as I don't really have much of value to add to the conversation but I just wanted to confirm to you that it was very helpful, at least to me.