For someone who has studied communism in such detail, who seemed to have an understanding of the dangers that the Marxist-left poses, and, who has suffered greatly at the hands of cancel culture, I question how someone could be so monumentally wrong about what is going on with the Left & Right at the moment, particularly, with regards to the 2020 election fraud.
(He also believes fascism is on the Right, and, that most Democrat politicians are "very moderate", but, that's a discussion for another time).
The only explanation I have is Jordan has become a bit out of touch with reality, given his life-threatening medical condition, which took him out of the political landscape for a significant amount of time. He has only recently recovered & returned to the scene in the past few months.
His views of election fraud first became apparent on his recent podcast, with interview guest British intellectual Douglas Murray, whom also shares Jordan's belief that election fraud is a "conspiracy theory". (This was apparently recorded before January 18th, 2021).
He summarizes his discussion with Douglas, during his more recent podcast, with Gad Saad, as follows (recorded January 18th, 2021, released February 15th, 2021):
"I've noticed recently among friends and family members, as well as, more broadly in the culture, that there is a pronounced increase in the degree to which conspiratorial theories in particular, and, paranoid theories are propagating on the Right.
Now I don't know much about Q-anon, I've been out of the loop, and, I should be more on top of that, but I'm not. I do know that it's popular and pervasive.
And I do know that Trump's claims to have won the election are supported by a network of conspiratorial thinking. I was speaking with Douglas Murray about that, and you tell me what you think about this, this is sort of the conclusion of our discussion was that Trump claims that he won the election, and actually that he won it by a substantial margin, that's the claims as far as I've been able to understand them.
To believe that, this is what you have to believe:
(1) you have to believe that the electoral system in the United States is broken to the degree that fraud is widespread and pervasive and of sufficient magnitude to move an election,
(2) you have to believe that people as close to Trump as Mike Pence have become part of a conspiratorial network or have been shut down by people who are able to put sufficient pressure on him,
(3) you have to believe that the judiciary in the United States which I believe has ruled something like 60 times against his claims and one time in favour, you have to believe that it's become uncontrollably corrupt, even on the Republican side, even when those Republicans were nominated by Trump or Trump's people, and,
(4) you have to believe that the only person standing on moral high ground, through all of this, has been Trump.
Each of those propositions seems to me to have a low probability of truth, and their combined probability is infinitesimally small.
But, there's widespread support for Trump's claims that he won the election and was robbed of it."
(I've added the numbers to the list for clarity, and removed some of his stuttering of words).
Gad Saad dodges Jordan's question of whether he believes in election fraud, and they never return to it later in the discussion.
We do have some extra benefit of hindsight, in seeing TIME magazine's admission of guilt of the "conspiracy", but even so, I'd wager that the vast majority of us, prior to having seen the TIME piece, believed (and still believe) that election fraud was widespread enough to overturn the election.
Trying to put myself in Jordan's shoes, or someone like him, if I had known nothing about the details of the election fraud, and, were at least partially asleep, his argument would actually sound convincing. He says it with such a level of confidence, despite seemingly not having looked at the evidence, and paints election fraud believers as conspiracy nuts, basically.
So, a question for the community.
How do we convince someone, as intelligent as Jordan, of the election fraud, if they don't seem particularly interested in looking at the evidence, and, have already passed judgment on it as a "(crazy) conspiracy theory"?
Source footage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_RrYz85E1A (Douglas Murray interview; ~43 mins in, Douglas begins to bring up the topic of elections & election fraud, Jordan weighs in at: ~45min 45s, ~48mins 15s, ~49mins 45s, ~1hr 5mins, ~1hr 8mins, ~1hr 20mins)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eBcKlBaaoc (Gad Saad interview; ~9mins 50s in, Jordan begins the above quote about his thoughts on the election fraud)
I'll allow Jordan Peterson to be wrong every once in a while. Seeing as how he has been correct on so many topics.
He should be more like me though, Im correct all the time on all topics. This is how I have the power to allow him to be wrong every once in a while.
Yes, Jordan has been right about a great deal of what's happening. I just hope this isn't a sign of things to come from him, i.e., not doing enough research before echoing main stream lies.
Do you have a time stamp on those videos of where he said this?
For the Douglas Murray video, Douglas begins to lead into it with a story with about how the Right hasn't "accepted the loss", i.e., (wrongly) believes the election was stolen. He starts this story at about 43 mins, initially with a story about British politics.
Jordan begins to weigh in on the election fraud at: ~45min 45s, ~48mins 15s, ~49mins 45s, ~1hr 5mins, ~1hr 8mins, ~1hr 20mins.
For the Gad Saad video, he starts the above quote at 9 mins 50s.
Thanks. I do agree with you, maybe Jordan should have delayed his opinion until SCOTUS made their decision. He's well aware of MSM dishonesty.
You're welcome.
To the point of SCOTUS, at the time of recordings (mid January), it would have been unclear that SCOTUS would even hear the case. Some of us still doubt they'll hear it on Feb. 19th.
My point is more broad, though.
The chances of all of these pieces of evidences not amounting to an overturning the election is "infinitesimally small" (as Jordan would say). I have a hard time believing that Jordan actually examined the evidence carefully and arrived to the conclusion that he did.
This suggests to me that he simply hasn't looked at the evidence with the level of scrutiny we are used to seeing from him.
True.
Maybe the DS was behind his illness and he's treading lightly for a while?
I think the pressure put on him by the Left, at least in part, led to his deep depression. This eventually led to his anti-depressant issues (which was what became life-threatening).
I could have sworn I seen part of a recent interview of him with Abigail Shrier, about the transgender issue. Looking online, it has seemed to have disappeared, or, I have mixed this up for a different interview (either with Jordan & someone else, or, Abigail & someone else).
Anyways, at the beginning of the interview, I remember Jordan saying something to the effect of "what you [Abigail] are doing is brave, some of that braveness has been beaten out of me [by the Left]".
I think the Left have possibly frightened him to be less "controversial". Don't need to invoke the DS for this possibility. Basically, the mob got to him.
Looks like Jordan re-uploaded the Abigail Shrier podcast, just re-ordered it within his series (was originally episode 2, 3, or 4 if I recall correctly).
It is in the first 3 minutes that he says he was afraid to interview her because of the attacks which may come.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSKQfATa-1I
That is a misrepresentation of the word "conspiratorial." Conspiracy is NOT an unsupported claim about something. It is a claim that two or more persons conspired to do something illegal or immoral, and there is some sort of evidence that it MIGHT be true. Nobody can prove ironclad conspiracy unless they have the power of subpoena, which most people don't have in most situations.
To claim there is NO EVIDENCE (which is what this statement claims) is to either LIE or be completely IGNORANT of all the witnesses and other evidence that exists.
He also repeats the false claim that 60 judges ruled against Trump. This claim implies that judges have looked at evidence, held hearings where both sides can examine and cross examine witnesses, and concluded that the evidence is insufficient. This is a FALSE implication. NO JUDGE, to date, has ruled on the evidence, based on any evidentiary hearing. NOT ONE.
Why would someone like him make a statement about a topic for which he has NO KNOWLEDGE whatsoever?
Seems like an attempt to influence people, not an attempt to pursue truth.
He has bought the MSM lie that election fraud is a conspiracy theory.
He has seemingly abandoned the pursuit of truth, writing election fraud off as "too far fetched", and hence, not worth his time to investigate.
During the Douglas Murry interview at ~1:39 I found even more worrisome is their discussion of "reckless" speech. Douglas spoke of being "embarrassed" by it.
Maybe they read the redacted version of the speech but Jordan said he read the speech "very carefully" and that Trump basically said: "Here's what I think; here's what I think you should do if you're a true patriot"
I think they both said reasonable things at the beginning but as it went on I did get the impression they were incrementally pushing the point that its time to move on and that Trump was bad.
https://mega.nz/folder/Kh10QIqC#F7GVKeO2M8C05tCX5M8wEA
Send THIS to Jordan Peterson. If he still doesn't believe that the election was stolen, then we should no longer listen to anything Jordan Peterson says.
https://mega.nz/folder/Kh10QIqC#F7GVKeO2M8C05tCX5M8wEA/file/7osmgYLA
Especially this video!
Funny enough, I was going to compile something just like that, specifically because Jordan's interview with Douglas bothered me, then, I seen you had posted that folder not too long after.
I can’t believe Jordan says no election fraud. I used to think he was one of the smartest people on planet.
It's a good lesson that smart people are not smart about everything, nor are they smart all the time.
Even Academics make this mistake. And end up asking, say, an award winning Nobel prize winner in Physics a question about politics. He knows Physics; why would you ask him about politics? It's not his field. Too many people -- the smart person and the sycophants -- think smart in one means smart in all.
Peterson is great in a lot of fields of Psychology and history related to Communism. But though he correct identified C-16 in Canada, he's out of the loop on this one. And it might also be due to his illness. He practically left the planet for a couple years.
You cant calll something a conspiracy theory unless youve researched it. Anyone who thinks election fraud is a theory hasnt researched it
I don’t know why he would comment on something outside of his expertise. That’s a fool’s errand.
Did they replace him with a clone? Lol.
What happened to you Jordan?
who knows what they have done to jordan over the last year. he is not the same man he once was.
This dude is obviously bad news if he can't see something this blatantly obvious.
I doubt it has anything to do with him losing his mind or a misunderstanding.
I honestly believe it is ignorance, him being out of touch.
Even with topics not related to election fraud, during the interview he seemed a bit behind, having a hard time grasping what's going on with the Left with woke-ism.
James Lindsay has surpassed him as an academic thought leader on the Leftist ideology.
I saw a bit of video of him, his daughter with the breathing guy, Jordan seems very "off", you could tell it was still him but he's not the same. Whatever happened with that drug seems to have really put the zap on his head. Hopefully he heals and comes around at some point. I think he needs to concentrate more on himself, he has the money to do nothing for awhile.
Definitely possible. It's just hard to imagine someone as "smart" as him not seeing something so obvious.
His positions in previous years were so well thought out and considered. It seemed like he didn't say a single thing that he hadn't put a great deal of thought and research into.
In this case, it seems he's relying on the fake news, and, his prior expertise, to form opinions.
He chooses his words extremely carefully it seems
I agree, I believe he is misinformed on this topic and, like deadbeatnik, I hold an infinitesimal amount of knowledge, so I'll allow it too
Indeed. It is unfortunate that this will colour all of his future analysis of the Right though, if he doesn't get informed. If you watch the videos, you'll see clearly that he believes much of the Right to be crazy/paranoid conspiracy people at the moment.
If he's willing to pontificate on one subject that he knows nothing about, what else has he been potificating about without any knowlege, as well?
He fears civil war so much it clouds his vision.
He must have lost his mind
I stopped listening to jordan pertson when he said he took pills for anxiety and it back fired on him. Like you gatta be pretty slow to think the pill he took would've worked. His whole make your own bed stuff was nice but anything farther than that wasn't really useful for anything
He is right about those four things being needed for the election fraud, that they seem unlikely to occur on face value, and, that it was close.
But, he does make his position clear in the two videos, he all but says directly that fraud wasn't great enough to overturn the election. Watch the two videos to see what I mean here, I've time stamped the important parts.
Agreed though, he has done plenty of good.
Personally, he's the one that led me onto a path of being awake. It went from Peterson to Rubin to a whole bunch of conservatives for me.
Sad. What a shame.
He is a brilliant man and his first appearance on Joe Rogan woke me up.
His biblical lecture series is amazing.
However, he falls short as he won’t accept God and is not born again. So he, like all children of the lie, will continue to fall short from the truth
Actually, he does believe in God, he's just reluctant to use that phrase. Jordan explains this during an interview with Dennis Prager, when Dennis asks him about God:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L47oJxwp6yg
No man who loves God would be reluctant to admit so.
The fact he uses medications to deal with the world and the fact he fell apart when his wife was ill, proves he has no faith
Trust me, I’ve followed him for 4 years, watched almost all his videos and have seen him multiple times in person. He means well, but still falls short of being a son of God.
Fair enough.
Jordan is a sham