Not that we are not called to sobriety, because you are right, we are but forget not fellow sibling that there is another side to that coin to balance the scale because that very same Jesus holding a pede... drank wine. Furthermore he drank enough in public that most people thought of him as the town drunk:
Luke 7:31-35
31 And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the men of this generation? and to what are they like?
32 They are like unto children sitting in the marketplace, and calling one to another, and saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned to you, and ye have not wept.
33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.
34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!
35 But wisdom is justified of all her children.
And another place
1 Timothy 5:23
23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.
Measure your judgements wisely, sibling to be sure you are not demonizing things that God Himself has created and called good. God bless you in Jesus name, and I exhort you to continue preaching sobriety. THAT you were correct we ought be preaching to the world and exhorting each other to be.
Proverbs 31:4-9
4 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:
5 Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.
6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.
8 Open thy mouth for the dumb in the cause of all such as are appointed to destruction.
9 Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy.
And finally
Ephesians 5:17-21
17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.
18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;
21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
Fellow sibling, the substance is not the sin. The abuse of it is.
God bless you in Jesus name with all love and encouragement, amen.
I think I remember something about wine was okay but for some reason beer was considered stronger? Do you remember that or where that may be found? I haven't has any alcohol since May 2020 and often wonder if I'll ever have a glass of wine again when all this, whatever this is, is over. But then I think why bother? I'm doing fine now, in many ways better mentally and def physically.
I don't know about beer. I know that barely and wine are mentioned with the 4 horseman revelation 6:6. It says and let the Holy Spirit speak to you its meaning:
Revelation 6:5-6
5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.
6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
I mean all beer is is bread wine if you're technical about it. I think the main thing the Bible was trying to say sums up best with what Jesus said in my prior response; wisdom is unique to each of her children. So some may sing; some may not. Some may cry; some may not. Some drink; some not. Some smoke; some don't. I believe it goes back to the gifts the Holy Ghost gives us. Test me against the scripture lest I lie. But sincerely, I believe the point was the Holiness was in gratitude and temperance. And the sin is in excess and the lack of sobriety. I didn't drink for a long time either after I got drawn by the Holy Spirit of God and saved by Jesus Christ . But I promised a friend prior to that to share a beer with him one day. So I broke my 1 year fast of alcohol with specific request from him that I not be allowed more than a beer...I used to get really drunk with him in the past. He is still an atheist/agnostic. But I look back and the one thing I regret is not being comfortable in my faith enough to share a little hit with him (with all sobriety). Looking back I wonder how much I may have ministered Jesus Christ to him BECAUSE I drank with him. How much more I could have had I enjoyed a light smoke with him. Like I said I'm open to being rebuked but God created all these beautiful creations. They all obviously had purpose. Weed was prior to the 1900's was often used in pain medicine and weight loss and even some cases of depression. And we already know that the yeast in beer and wine is good for the belly. The alcohol kills bad bacteria but leaves the good... including the vitamins in yeast. Essentially it goes back to the main thing Jesus said in Luke 7. Some will, some won't. Doesn't make either of them wrong.
What's that verse in the Epistles?
1 Corinthians 10:18-31
18 Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar?
19 What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing?
20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.
21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.
22 Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?
23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.
24 Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth.
25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
26 For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.
27 If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.
28 But if any man say unto you, this is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:
29 Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?
30 For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?
31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
What made the food a danger to eat?
A: if it was offered to idols..
Yet are we free to eat regardless. Yet also those that announce they did for their own sake we ought deny it.
I suppose what I pray in Jesus name the Holy Ghost is using me to say is this:
TLDR;
Judge between yourself and the LORD if you ought do. Some abstain from substance for the sake of the Lord.
Others enjoy them in moderation and temperance and full control of self in gratitude to the LORD.
As long as you forsake not the law and scriptures of God in Jesus Christ, the Bible, and you've tested the thing you partake in is of God then who's to argue.
Some forsake sex for celibacy unto the LORD.
Others marry and enjoy fully in sex for the gratification of their spouse offering gratitude to the LORD for creating sex and the bond it brings between husband and wife and the life it creates, i.e children.
Interesting timing bc my husband saw a friend yesterday whom he's actually distanced from since 2019 bc of excess alcohol. Our lives were a mess. We had a health crisis for him and it brought us out of catholicism into the true Bible believing relationship with Jesus.
Our lives had changed monumentally for the better since. He had a promise to himself and me to not ever drink with him when he's trying to help him and see the power of God in his life. They're catholic but don't practice and there's some white witch stuff within the family as well.
Basically it's one tragedy after another that hits them. Lots of anger at God. So hubby and I agreed that he can't be effective to minister while drinking. That even if we have an occasional one, we can't ever if we'd go out to dinner with them bc they wouldn't see the change and want to surrender to Jesus.
But you've given me more thought that it isn't as black and white. Tho hubby said he made good points, and his friend listened for the first time rather than shut it down, he agrees you can't really be an effective witness for Jesus when you're drunk! It may sound good, but it isn't the same.
I'm going to look more into those verses. I know there's some belief that Jesus turned water into really good grape juice lol. I and most do understand it was wine. Anyway thank you, you've given me more to ponder!
God bless you and your family in Jesus name, sister. The Holy Spirit will show you what you ought do. If I've learned anything these few years I've been with Jesus Christ since He drew me in with His Holy Ghost; it is this:
Who Jesus actually is and who we make Him out to be are far different than we make it out to be. In fact my Bible reading today in Acts 14 (I highly recommend you and your husband read it sister/ all of it):
Paul and Barnabas were going out around Icomium I believe; and they had passed off the jews AND the greeks by preaching Jesus Christ. They were as it was, enemies of the entirety of iconium so much so that the Greeks and jews put their differences aside solely to attack and attempt to kill off Paul and Barnabas. As Jesus even warned, our enemies would stretch across EVERY walk of life and relationship.
Matthew 24:7-14 (although the whole chapter is most important now and even more so since Paul's and Barnabas' time.)
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
God bless you and your home in Jesus name, sister. And may God bless and give your husband the wisdom to lead your home straitly for the Gospel of Jesus Christ sake, that he may properly minister to your friends lost to excess and for their blessing as well through him and you. Regardless our Father's will be done. Amen
Not that we are not called to sobriety, because you are right, we are but forget not fellow sibling that there is another side to that coin to balance the scale because that very same Jesus holding a pede... drank wine. Furthermore he drank enough in public that most people thought of him as the town drunk:
Luke 7:31-35
31 And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the men of this generation? and to what are they like?
32 They are like unto children sitting in the marketplace, and calling one to another, and saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned to you, and ye have not wept.
33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.
34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!
35 But wisdom is justified of all her children.
And another place
1 Timothy 5:23
23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.
Measure your judgements wisely, sibling to be sure you are not demonizing things that God Himself has created and called good. God bless you in Jesus name, and I exhort you to continue preaching sobriety. THAT you were correct we ought be preaching to the world and exhorting each other to be.
Proverbs 31:4-9
4 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:
5 Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.
6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.
8 Open thy mouth for the dumb in the cause of all such as are appointed to destruction.
9 Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy.
And finally
Ephesians 5:17-21
17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.
18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;
21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
Fellow sibling, the substance is not the sin. The abuse of it is.
God bless you in Jesus name with all love and encouragement, amen.
I think I remember something about wine was okay but for some reason beer was considered stronger? Do you remember that or where that may be found? I haven't has any alcohol since May 2020 and often wonder if I'll ever have a glass of wine again when all this, whatever this is, is over. But then I think why bother? I'm doing fine now, in many ways better mentally and def physically.
I don't know about beer. I know that barely and wine are mentioned with the 4 horseman revelation 6:6. It says and let the Holy Spirit speak to you its meaning:
Revelation 6:5-6
5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.
6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
I mean all beer is is bread wine if you're technical about it. I think the main thing the Bible was trying to say sums up best with what Jesus said in my prior response; wisdom is unique to each of her children. So some may sing; some may not. Some may cry; some may not. Some drink; some not. Some smoke; some don't. I believe it goes back to the gifts the Holy Ghost gives us. Test me against the scripture lest I lie. But sincerely, I believe the point was the Holiness was in gratitude and temperance. And the sin is in excess and the lack of sobriety. I didn't drink for a long time either after I got drawn by the Holy Spirit of God and saved by Jesus Christ . But I promised a friend prior to that to share a beer with him one day. So I broke my 1 year fast of alcohol with specific request from him that I not be allowed more than a beer...I used to get really drunk with him in the past. He is still an atheist/agnostic. But I look back and the one thing I regret is not being comfortable in my faith enough to share a little hit with him (with all sobriety). Looking back I wonder how much I may have ministered Jesus Christ to him BECAUSE I drank with him. How much more I could have had I enjoyed a light smoke with him. Like I said I'm open to being rebuked but God created all these beautiful creations. They all obviously had purpose. Weed was prior to the 1900's was often used in pain medicine and weight loss and even some cases of depression. And we already know that the yeast in beer and wine is good for the belly. The alcohol kills bad bacteria but leaves the good... including the vitamins in yeast. Essentially it goes back to the main thing Jesus said in Luke 7. Some will, some won't. Doesn't make either of them wrong.
What's that verse in the Epistles?
1 Corinthians 10:18-31
18 Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar?
19 What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing?
20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.
21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.
22 Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?
23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.
24 Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth.
25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
26 For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.
27 If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.
28 But if any man say unto you, this is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:
29 Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?
30 For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?
31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
What made the food a danger to eat?
A: if it was offered to idols..
Yet are we free to eat regardless. Yet also those that announce they did for their own sake we ought deny it.
I suppose what I pray in Jesus name the Holy Ghost is using me to say is this:
TLDR; Judge between yourself and the LORD if you ought do. Some abstain from substance for the sake of the Lord.
Others enjoy them in moderation and temperance and full control of self in gratitude to the LORD.
As long as you forsake not the law and scriptures of God in Jesus Christ, the Bible, and you've tested the thing you partake in is of God then who's to argue.
Some forsake sex for celibacy unto the LORD.
Others marry and enjoy fully in sex for the gratification of their spouse offering gratitude to the LORD for creating sex and the bond it brings between husband and wife and the life it creates, i.e children.
God bless you in Jesus name, amen
Wow thank you for well thought out reply.
Interesting timing bc my husband saw a friend yesterday whom he's actually distanced from since 2019 bc of excess alcohol. Our lives were a mess. We had a health crisis for him and it brought us out of catholicism into the true Bible believing relationship with Jesus.
Our lives had changed monumentally for the better since. He had a promise to himself and me to not ever drink with him when he's trying to help him and see the power of God in his life. They're catholic but don't practice and there's some white witch stuff within the family as well.
Basically it's one tragedy after another that hits them. Lots of anger at God. So hubby and I agreed that he can't be effective to minister while drinking. That even if we have an occasional one, we can't ever if we'd go out to dinner with them bc they wouldn't see the change and want to surrender to Jesus.
But you've given me more thought that it isn't as black and white. Tho hubby said he made good points, and his friend listened for the first time rather than shut it down, he agrees you can't really be an effective witness for Jesus when you're drunk! It may sound good, but it isn't the same.
I'm going to look more into those verses. I know there's some belief that Jesus turned water into really good grape juice lol. I and most do understand it was wine. Anyway thank you, you've given me more to ponder!
God bless you and your family in Jesus name, sister. The Holy Spirit will show you what you ought do. If I've learned anything these few years I've been with Jesus Christ since He drew me in with His Holy Ghost; it is this:
Who Jesus actually is and who we make Him out to be are far different than we make it out to be. In fact my Bible reading today in Acts 14 (I highly recommend you and your husband read it sister/ all of it):
Paul and Barnabas were going out around Icomium I believe; and they had passed off the jews AND the greeks by preaching Jesus Christ. They were as it was, enemies of the entirety of iconium so much so that the Greeks and jews put their differences aside solely to attack and attempt to kill off Paul and Barnabas. As Jesus even warned, our enemies would stretch across EVERY walk of life and relationship.
Matthew 24:7-14 (although the whole chapter is most important now and even more so since Paul's and Barnabas' time.)
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
God bless you and your home in Jesus name, sister. And may God bless and give your husband the wisdom to lead your home straitly for the Gospel of Jesus Christ sake, that he may properly minister to your friends lost to excess and for their blessing as well through him and you. Regardless our Father's will be done. Amen