Same happened with the Steve Kirsch and Robert Malone podcast. Really pissed me off - I was yelling at them like in a pantomime and the baddie is lurking backstage: “He’s behind you!” They kept using euphemisms like ‘systemic capture’ and ‘phenomenon’ and ‘wrong signals’ as reasons for why almost every institution involved had ignored or subverted almost every protocol, scientific principle and code of conduct. “All that is needed for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing” was my sense after watching it.