But from a purely economic side of it, the inherent value of the coin is it represent computational access on the network
If there are cryptos for which this is true, then that suggests their value would not vary at all unless the demand for their productive value went up. In such a case then such a crypto could be used as a currency. But that still has some intrinsic problems.
One such problem is that if you use it as a currency then it becomes more scarce, which increases its value, and it can't be used to do work when its being used as a currency (same with any asset like this really, even silver). So it would need to be plentiful enough that its use as a currency doesn't substantially interfere with its use in production, both in the present and in the future.
This particular problem is not unique to such a crypto, that is inherent with any real asset. That is why I stated that any system that is not designed for true barter, with many mediums of exchange as I have suggested above, is ultimately doomed to fail (or cause a free market economy to no longer be free).
given that the entire modern financial system has functioned on fiat paper and 1&0s.
When I expose the full fraud in the system, you will see that the only reason it has worked is because of pure evil. It is a system that can not work without fraud. It is because I have spent the entire last year studying this fraud and making a report about it that I am saying what I am saying. Explaining that is part of several hundred pages of my report, so it's not like I can just "say it." Nevertheless, I am trying. It gets confusing because I am having an ongoing conversation with three different people in this thread and I am not sure exactly what I've said to whom.
The fed types numbers into a spreadsheet long before the actual paper is printed.
Paper is never really printed (in scope) almost all money stays as 1s&0s. The fraud in "a modern economy" is more than you can imagine. When I expose the full system of their fraud, I swear I will be very surprised if the world doesn't just blow up on the spot.
is a subjective societal construct we've invented as well.
No it isn't. Gold, silver, platinum, etc. have real value because they are unique elements with real properties that can't be duplicated. Anyone who doesn't understand that PMs are valuable because of their physical properties has never studied physics, chemistry, history... anything. This argument is absolutely false. PMs have been used for all sorts of things long before they were used as a currency because of their physical properties. Over time we have found more uses for them. It's like saying "water has no value, it's just wet." Water has value because of its physical properties, so do PMs.
and to the degree it represents your ownership/participation in DeFi or staking positions; has an intrinsic value representative of the network/protocol that issued the coin.
If its value is not directly tied to its ability to produce, then it is overvalued. As far as I know (which is really only the big ones) there are no cryptos whose value is tied to their productive capacity.
With that being said, your final point there about its economic valuation being based in production; this point doesn't exactly apply to gold does it?
Supply/demand sets the price.
Except when it doesn't.
In the case of gold, there was a time when S/D set the trade value of gold.
Gold critics (mostly crypto fanatics) dismiss the value of jewelry. We have been using various items for adornment for who knows how many tens (hundreds?) of thousands of years. Gold critics brush that off like its meaningless, because you can't eat it, or make a sword out of it.
But it's far from meaningless. You can't eat or wear, or find shelter in purple dye, but that doesn't make purple dye not valuable. I think there was even a war or two over it (if I remember correctly). People like to look pretty, that's just the truth of things.
Gold is very pretty. It's color and lustre are physical properties that are unmatched. It is malleable (another physical property) and can be easily shaped into complex forms. You can make statements with it, and those statements look amazing. People have been doing that with gold for forever. That means it has value. It is the best suited material that exists in the universe for all those purposes. That's just physics.
From what I have seen, denying these real tangible historic uses of gold, for which there is evidence that goes back tens of thousands of years, is imo a lie crypto people tell themselves to make them feel better about their brand new shiny fiat currencies.
Having said that, the S/D on gold has been manipulated for thousands of years. I don't mean that we give it more value than it would otherwise have. I don't know if that's true. I mean it has been the primary means of controlling the world for thousands of years, through purposeful manipulation of its S/D curve, mostly by hording and exchange rate manipulation. But it has only been able to be manipulated as such a control device because it has value outside of merely "saying it does."
It's current uses are in jewelry, technologies in biology, chemistry, electronics, and many other industries because of its unique physical properties. So is its real value tied to its productive capacity? No.
I seriously doubt its current value has anything to do with its productive capacity. But I have no clue what it's real value would be if it were not being manipulated. It could be worth even more than the value it is currently assigned. Who knows? Not that I'm saying I think that. It could be far less. But it would have some value, and it would likely be relatively high because it is rare, and it will be forever rare, because that's just physics. There is only so much of it in the universe, and it is far less than most elements.
If there are cryptos for which this is true, then that suggests their value would not vary at all unless the demand for their productive value went up. In such a case then such a crypto could be used as a currency. But that still has some intrinsic problems.
One such problem is that if you use it as a currency then it becomes more scarce, which increases its value, and it can't be used to do work when its being used as a currency (same with any asset like this really, even silver). So it would need to be plentiful enough that its use as a currency doesn't substantially interfere with its use in production, both in the present and in the future.
This particular problem is not unique to such a crypto, that is inherent with any real asset. That is why I stated that any system that is not designed for true barter, with many mediums of exchange as I have suggested above, is ultimately doomed to fail (or cause a free market economy to no longer be free).
When I expose the full fraud in the system, you will see that the only reason it has worked is because of pure evil. It is a system that can not work without fraud. It is because I have spent the entire last year studying this fraud and making a report about it that I am saying what I am saying. Explaining that is part of several hundred pages of my report, so it's not like I can just "say it." Nevertheless, I am trying. It gets confusing because I am having an ongoing conversation with three different people in this thread and I am not sure exactly what I've said to whom.
Paper is never really printed (in scope) almost all money stays as 1s&0s. The fraud in "a modern economy" is more than you can imagine. When I expose the full system of their fraud, I swear I will be very surprised if the world doesn't just blow up on the spot.
No it isn't. Gold, silver, platinum, etc. have real value because they are unique elements with real properties that can't be duplicated. Anyone who doesn't understand that PMs are valuable because of their physical properties has never studied physics, chemistry, history... anything. This argument is absolutely false. PMs have been used for all sorts of things long before they were used as a currency because of their physical properties. Over time we have found more uses for them. It's like saying "water has no value, it's just wet." Water has value because of its physical properties, so do PMs.
If its value is not directly tied to its ability to produce, then it is overvalued. As far as I know (which is really only the big ones) there are no cryptos whose value is tied to their productive capacity.
Supply/demand sets the price.
Except when it doesn't.
In the case of gold, there was a time when S/D set the trade value of gold.
Gold critics (mostly crypto fanatics) dismiss the value of jewelry. We have been using various items for adornment for who knows how many tens (hundreds?) of thousands of years. Gold critics brush that off like its meaningless, because you can't eat it, or make a sword out of it.
But it's far from meaningless. You can't eat or wear, or find shelter in purple dye, but that doesn't make purple dye not valuable. I think there was even a war or two over it (if I remember correctly). People like to look pretty, that's just the truth of things.
Gold is very pretty. It's color and lustre are physical properties that are unmatched. It is malleable (another physical property) and can be easily shaped into complex forms. You can make statements with it, and those statements look amazing. People have been doing that with gold for forever. That means it has value. It is the best suited material that exists in the universe for all those purposes. That's just physics.
From what I have seen, denying these real tangible historic uses of gold, for which there is evidence that goes back tens of thousands of years, is imo a lie crypto people tell themselves to make them feel better about their brand new shiny fiat currencies.
Having said that, the S/D on gold has been manipulated for thousands of years. I don't mean that we give it more value than it would otherwise have. I don't know if that's true. I mean it has been the primary means of controlling the world for thousands of years, through purposeful manipulation of its S/D curve, mostly by hording and exchange rate manipulation. But it has only been able to be manipulated as such a control device because it has value outside of merely "saying it does."
It's current uses are in jewelry, technologies in biology, chemistry, electronics, and many other industries because of its unique physical properties. So is its real value tied to its productive capacity? No.
I seriously doubt its current value has anything to do with its productive capacity. But I have no clue what it's real value would be if it were not being manipulated. It could be worth even more than the value it is currently assigned. Who knows? Not that I'm saying I think that. It could be far less. But it would have some value, and it would likely be relatively high because it is rare, and it will be forever rare, because that's just physics. There is only so much of it in the universe, and it is far less than most elements.
Doesnt sound like anything different from most anti crypto people say except they don't blame the cabal...