When Q said it was going to be Biblical, I don’t think of that primarily in terms of scale. I think of it in terms of prophecy being fulfilled. It leads me to believe we are living in time when that is happening, and that prophecies are right now being fulfilled in ways that are quite different from what people have been taught to believe about them. For example, no one could have reconciled the many prophecies about the Messiah until they looked back at them in hindsight, even though they thought they had it pretty well worked out at the time. The prophets said the Messiah would come from Egypt, from Nazareth, and from Bethlehem, and only after His advent did people understand how those three things fit together without creating a paradox. The powers that did be at the time completely rejected Him because He didn’t fit into the box they made from their interpretations of prophecy (the conquering hero), even though He was fulfilling prophecy by doing unprecedented miracles right in front of their eyes. The same sort of interpretive box-making is still going on today, in precious doctrines of men people think are the doctrines of God, and neither will they see it when prophecy begins to unfold all around them.
In light of all that, I think it would be good to consider how the following prophecies might relate to current events:
(Psalm 2: 1-6, NKJV) Why do the nations rage, And the people plot a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, And the rulers take counsel together, Against the Lord and against His Anointed, saying, “Let us break their bonds in pieces And cast away their cords from us.” He who sits in the heavens shall laugh; The Lord shall hold them in derision. Then He shall speak to them in His wrath, And distress them in His deep displeasure: “Yet I have set My King On My holy hill of Zion.”
(Isaiah 24:21-22, NKJV) It shall come to pass in that day That the Lord will punish on high the host of exalted ones, And on the earth the kings of the earth. They will be gathered together, As prisoners are gathered in the pit, And will be shut up in the prison; After many days they will be punished.
(Revelation 18:1-3) After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was illuminated with his glory. And he cried mightily with a loud voice, saying, “Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and has become a dwelling place of demons, a prison for every foul spirit, and a cage for every unclean and hated bird! For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury.”
(Revelation 18:7-8, NKJV) In the measure that she glorified herself and lived luxuriously, in the same measure give her torment and sorrow; for she says in her heart, ‘I sit as queen, and am no widow, and will not see sorrow.’ Therefore her plagues will come in one day—death and mourning and famine. And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges her.
I realize am presenting these scriptures out of context, to which some might rightly object; but even though I am a great fan of context, there is much that can be inferred in these sections of texts. I only present them here for consideration in light of world events and in light of what we know has been happening behind what we can see. We know what Babylon is. We know that God is taking it down. We know that the great ones of the earth have conspired to drive God out of the consciousness of mankind. We know they are facing punishment for their crimes. And, we know that God has already won the war before they ever picked up a sword.
Free note: In Psalm 2, “Yet I have set My King on my holy hill of Zion.” “My King,” is Jesus. Zion is the hill of King David’s city where the king’s palace was and where the Temple of God would be erected by his son. This is a metaphor declaring that God has complete and utter control in spite of whatever his enemies might plot against Him.
I think you missed the point. The thread author said there are 3 prophesies about the Messiah, one saying he we be born in Egypt, one in Nazareth, and one in Bethlehem, and for a long time, no one understood who this was, it only made sense afterwards. If that's the case, please point out three such sources that were written prior to the birth of Jesus.
Matthew was written afterwards, and therefore cannot be a source of confusion regarding three places the Messiah should be born. Please point out three texts prior to Jesus that indicate these three places.
Better. Thank you. Sorry for taking so long to reply. I have other things I must do apart from hanging out here.
You want concrete examples, and I can appreciate that, but I can give you none. The language of prophecy its largely poetic and obscure. You have to dig to find meaning, and I think Q must have taken a (forgive me) cue from the prophets. I have long thought about this, and it seems to me that it is deliberate on God's part to be coy. In most cases He lets us know what will happen without really saying it outright or giving exact dates, and I think it is for the reason of hiding His plans from the devil in plain sight. Mankind is the focus of a war between good and evil that has been going on for millennia, and it would makes sense for God to do that. In cases where He tells us plainly, I think it's because it won't matter what the devil knows about it. On this point, I think it's interesting that for almost 2 years Satan didn't seem to know that Jesus was in Bethlehem. The devil seemed to find out only when Herod got wind of it from the visiting magi, because only then did he make a futile effort to destroy Him.
If it turns out that I am mistaken on the point you mention, it doesn't negate my general argument. There are enough seemingly contradictory prophecies to make my point many times over. If I find out I'm wrong, it isn't so bad. I have been wrong before and I will likely be wrong again on some point as I continued to search for the truth. So, so what? We see through a glass darkly, and I think that is also by design.
I'm sorry I couldn't satisfy you. Your determination to push me for evidence that will support my 3-origin Messiah contention is impressive, and I commend you for that. For me, the testimony of someone who was trained by Jesus Himself is enough to begin with, but if it is not enough for you, perhaps you should search the matter out yourself. Who knows? Maybe you are the one who will find the answers that will put the entire question to rest once and for all. (I am not the only one who holds that view.)
In the meantime, peace to you. May all good things come your way to make you happy. I believe that will happen, even without proof because I think God loves you and wants to give you that.
Micah 5:2, Hosea 11:1, Isaiah 11:1
Hosea 11:1-3: "When Israel was a child, I loved him, and from Egypt I called to my son. They were called, yet they went from their face; they sacrificed unto the Baalim, and offered to graven images. And I taught Ephraim to walk, taking them by their arms; but they didn't know that I healed them..."
Nothing here is talking about a Messiah. This is chastising the people of Israel for worshiping other things, after God took them out of Egypt and raised them up.
Isaiah 11:1: "And there shall come forth a shoot out of the stock of Jesse, and a twig shall grow forth out of his roots."
Nothing here is talking about a city. What is seen here is multiple tree-related metaphors. No one would be looking at all these tree metaphors and saying to themselves, "oh, how can the Messiah come from each of these places?"