Yeah I had thought the Kazarians were this ancient people that had converted to Judaism, I didn't realize there were modern-day remnants of the original Khazarian culture.
the khazar nonsense has been disproven over and over again. there are no primary sources, and whatever secondary sources we have are often deliberately mistranslated.
genetics show that sephardi, ashkenazi, and mitzrahi jews all share common ancestry. they also show that samaritans share ancestry with the jews and neighboring peoples.
whether or not the ruling class of khazars converted, there is zero chance that modern jewry is “khazar” in nature. this is a pallywood fiction that caught on with the “we wuz kangs n shit” crowd, and hinges upon the ridiculous “dem joos control the world, changing our textbooks n sheet” delusion
You know what’s interesting, I just searched the 4chan archives this morning circa 2016, doing a little research of my own. You should see all the remarks claiming that some of the research done at that time was all conspiracy theory, fake and gay, only to be proven true today. I’m not saying there’s any proof to this Khazar stuff, but I’m going to withhold judgement until I look at it for myself. Sometimes we have to go through these phases.
On a side note, this place is so much better than everything else that came before regarding the antisemitism. Thank you for the contribution as it helps me weigh all sides. Good luck!
happy to contribute to any well-intentioned debate, and i appreciate your response - i normally get something along the lines of “are you a kike? you must be” etc. i don’t believe any subject should be taboo, and am all about re-evaluating “truths” and questioning narratives.
i have done quite a bit of research myself, and am always wary of factional / ideological dogma creeping into what ought to be an academic inquiry. there is a contingent that would like to co-opt our movement and transform it from “we the people vs the elites” into “we the people vs the jews.” wwg1wga
The evidence does not say that at all. In fact I literally just read this study on the topic from 2012, which flatly refutes your vague claims about genetics:
“With some notable exceptions, most Jewish populations cluster genetically with other Jewish populations, indicating genetic similarity that often exceeds that with non-Jewish historical neighbors“
I'll respond to only the Nature study you quoted from. The article is studying the relationship between Jewish populations, not comparing Jewish populations to Khazarian populations. You give this quote:
"With notable exceptions, most Jewish populations cluster genetically with other Jewish populations, indicating genetic similarity that often exceeds that with non-Jewish historical neighbors."
All of this is consistent with the article I linked to, which somehow reaches a totally different conclusion from the one you came to. Your quote only says that most of the Jewish populations (which mostly do not have a connection to the Middle East) have similarity to each other, which is exactly what we should expect because it was known to many available historical sources that they largely descended from Khazaria.
I personally don't think it matters whether they are Ukrainian Nazis or Khazarian Nazis in Ukraine. We already know they are Nazis. They are descended from Khazarians and in that tattoo video I saw earlier the guy supposedly had a tattoo of Khagan Bulan. I'm starting to think maybe there is an actual Khazarian conspiracy (which doesn't imply a Jewish conspiracy, though constant attempts by the ADL and Jews to censor anyone from talking about Khazarian ancestry is definitely not helping their case)? Maybe you can watch that video and weigh in?
They also discovered a change in burial practices (to one that was more closely aligned to Jewish burials) all over the region from around the time the Khazars were said to have converted. Many historical sources describe the Khazars as converted Jews, but no historical sources question that assertion.
the number of historical sources is not “many” by any stretch of the imagination.
also, the lack of refutation is a ridiculous argument to make. “you didn’t refute a hypothesis you (and virtually everyone else for all of history) were completely oblivious of. therefore it must be true” - you know that is a ludicrous assertion
I disagree with what you are saying here on both counts. There are tons of sources. Some mention the conversion, and others just reference the accepted fact at the time that all Khazarians were Jews. These come from sources across all Abrahamic religions. The fact that these historical claims were known for hundreds (or in some cases over 1000) years but were apparently never contested is actually quite telling. If a historical author stated something as a known fact but it was not a known fact, we would expect him/her to have been corrected on this, if only by actual Khazarians. But there is no evidence I have seen that anyone ever had any problem associating the Jews with Khazarian converts until the 20th century.
Yeah I had thought the Kazarians were this ancient people that had converted to Judaism, I didn't realize there were modern-day remnants of the original Khazarian culture.
the khazar nonsense has been disproven over and over again. there are no primary sources, and whatever secondary sources we have are often deliberately mistranslated.
genetics show that sephardi, ashkenazi, and mitzrahi jews all share common ancestry. they also show that samaritans share ancestry with the jews and neighboring peoples.
whether or not the ruling class of khazars converted, there is zero chance that modern jewry is “khazar” in nature. this is a pallywood fiction that caught on with the “we wuz kangs n shit” crowd, and hinges upon the ridiculous “dem joos control the world, changing our textbooks n sheet” delusion
You know what’s interesting, I just searched the 4chan archives this morning circa 2016, doing a little research of my own. You should see all the remarks claiming that some of the research done at that time was all conspiracy theory, fake and gay, only to be proven true today. I’m not saying there’s any proof to this Khazar stuff, but I’m going to withhold judgement until I look at it for myself. Sometimes we have to go through these phases.
On a side note, this place is so much better than everything else that came before regarding the antisemitism. Thank you for the contribution as it helps me weigh all sides. Good luck!
happy to contribute to any well-intentioned debate, and i appreciate your response - i normally get something along the lines of “are you a kike? you must be” etc. i don’t believe any subject should be taboo, and am all about re-evaluating “truths” and questioning narratives.
i have done quite a bit of research myself, and am always wary of factional / ideological dogma creeping into what ought to be an academic inquiry. there is a contingent that would like to co-opt our movement and transform it from “we the people vs the elites” into “we the people vs the jews.” wwg1wga
The evidence does not say that at all. In fact I literally just read this study on the topic from 2012, which flatly refutes your vague claims about genetics:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3595026/
“With some notable exceptions, most Jewish populations cluster genetically with other Jewish populations, indicating genetic similarity that often exceeds that with non-Jewish historical neighbors“
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41431-019-0542-y
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3543766/
it is the outliers like the “ethiopan jews” that are furthest from the other clusters
I'll respond to only the Nature study you quoted from. The article is studying the relationship between Jewish populations, not comparing Jewish populations to Khazarian populations. You give this quote:
"With notable exceptions, most Jewish populations cluster genetically with other Jewish populations, indicating genetic similarity that often exceeds that with non-Jewish historical neighbors."
All of this is consistent with the article I linked to, which somehow reaches a totally different conclusion from the one you came to. Your quote only says that most of the Jewish populations (which mostly do not have a connection to the Middle East) have similarity to each other, which is exactly what we should expect because it was known to many available historical sources that they largely descended from Khazaria.
I personally don't think it matters whether they are Ukrainian Nazis or Khazarian Nazis in Ukraine. We already know they are Nazis. They are descended from Khazarians and in that tattoo video I saw earlier the guy supposedly had a tattoo of Khagan Bulan. I'm starting to think maybe there is an actual Khazarian conspiracy (which doesn't imply a Jewish conspiracy, though constant attempts by the ADL and Jews to censor anyone from talking about Khazarian ancestry is definitely not helping their case)? Maybe you can watch that video and weigh in?
Wow you negged me for literally telling it like it is and providing proof. High five!
They also discovered a change in burial practices (to one that was more closely aligned to Jewish burials) all over the region from around the time the Khazars were said to have converted. Many historical sources describe the Khazars as converted Jews, but no historical sources question that assertion.
the number of historical sources is not “many” by any stretch of the imagination.
also, the lack of refutation is a ridiculous argument to make. “you didn’t refute a hypothesis you (and virtually everyone else for all of history) were completely oblivious of. therefore it must be true” - you know that is a ludicrous assertion
I disagree with what you are saying here on both counts. There are tons of sources. Some mention the conversion, and others just reference the accepted fact at the time that all Khazarians were Jews. These come from sources across all Abrahamic religions. The fact that these historical claims were known for hundreds (or in some cases over 1000) years but were apparently never contested is actually quite telling. If a historical author stated something as a known fact but it was not a known fact, we would expect him/her to have been corrected on this, if only by actual Khazarians. But there is no evidence I have seen that anyone ever had any problem associating the Jews with Khazarian converts until the 20th century.