You seem to be debating things that I haven't said. Regurgitating Putin talking points really does not further the point. As it seems to be the case as of late, there is no room for nuance among the polarized.
Russia doesn't get to shell apartment buildings and shoot up grandma and grandpa in a civilian vehicle, and then claim the city is under 'humanitarian' control. If the mission was humanitarian, Ukraine citizens would welcome Russian forces, clearly that's not the case. It's laughable.
My point is that neither side has clean hands. The fact that Russia is moving past Luhansk and Donetsk, proves that it's not about those territories.
If you claim to have a moral authority to invade Ukraine, that falls apart when you give a pass to China.
We can cheer on the destruction of biolabs but that doesn't justify the invasion of a sovereign nation. Ultimately, the enemy of my enemy does not make them my friend. I think that gets lost, even among Q followers.
Actually, they are welcoming the Russian forces, which are liberating them from the oppression of the nationalist militia. There are plenty of images of humanitarian goods being distributed to mass crowds in Melitopol, for example. The Ukrainian forces and militias are deliberately operating from otherwise protected locations: hospitals, kindergartens, schools, private residences. This is called using human shields and is an specified war crime. Russia has clean hands in engaging combatants. The Ukrainians have a positive obligation to keep their forces segregated from civilians, but they are failing to do this. The siege of Mariupol was broken when the Chechens finally got to the headquarters of the Azov battalion unit there, which was in a theater; the militia had been keeping civilians as hostages in the lobby. Or do you disagree with the Geneva Convention that human shields should not be allowed? The U.S. has never let that be a concern in the combat operations it has followed. We just shrug off "collateral damage" as "That's War."
Luhansk and Donetsk have been cleaned up and their respective armed forces have joined the Russian action, mainly by keeping order but also mopping up isolated units of the Ukrainian forces.
I gave no moral pass to China and you are a bare-faced liar to say so. I only said that prudence controls which fights we get into. Have you ever intervened to help someone in violent trouble? I have, twice. In the first occasion, I had to step in and interrupt a Mexican gang beating of an Anglo kid. In the second occasion, I had to intervene in an attempted rape. If you can't understand the limitations of one's physical ability, all the moral righteousness in the world will not prevent you from searching for your teeth in a puddle.
A "sovereign nation" fails to be one when it violates the precept that governments obtain their just powers from the consent of the governed. Any government that countenances genocide loses all legitimacy. It is no longer a government but a carnivorous predator.
P.S. Don't be too sure that what is presented as "Russian atrocities" have anything to do with the Russian forces. Ukraine has already promoted a number of outright lies (the nonexistent "Ghost of Kyiv," the bogus "Russian" tank that drove over a car [it was Ukrainian], the massacre of the garrison on Snake Island [all surrendered without harm]). They have presented repainted Ukrainian armored vehicles as being captured Russian vehicles. And they have presented the victims of Ukrainian fire as being Russian atrocities.
You cannot quote me giving China a moral pass. I did not. What bubble? Truth isn't always what we expect or want. Or, it may turn our understanding upside down. In any case, I see that you have no answer to my other points.
Nah, you just don't listen to them. You're so polarized that you actually believe Russia is on a "humanitarian" mission. It's very silly and so hyperbolic that there is no point in discussing it any further.
You seem to be debating things that I haven't said. Regurgitating Putin talking points really does not further the point. As it seems to be the case as of late, there is no room for nuance among the polarized.
Russia doesn't get to shell apartment buildings and shoot up grandma and grandpa in a civilian vehicle, and then claim the city is under 'humanitarian' control. If the mission was humanitarian, Ukraine citizens would welcome Russian forces, clearly that's not the case. It's laughable.
My point is that neither side has clean hands. The fact that Russia is moving past Luhansk and Donetsk, proves that it's not about those territories.
If you claim to have a moral authority to invade Ukraine, that falls apart when you give a pass to China.
We can cheer on the destruction of biolabs but that doesn't justify the invasion of a sovereign nation. Ultimately, the enemy of my enemy does not make them my friend. I think that gets lost, even among Q followers.
Actually, they are welcoming the Russian forces, which are liberating them from the oppression of the nationalist militia. There are plenty of images of humanitarian goods being distributed to mass crowds in Melitopol, for example. The Ukrainian forces and militias are deliberately operating from otherwise protected locations: hospitals, kindergartens, schools, private residences. This is called using human shields and is an specified war crime. Russia has clean hands in engaging combatants. The Ukrainians have a positive obligation to keep their forces segregated from civilians, but they are failing to do this. The siege of Mariupol was broken when the Chechens finally got to the headquarters of the Azov battalion unit there, which was in a theater; the militia had been keeping civilians as hostages in the lobby. Or do you disagree with the Geneva Convention that human shields should not be allowed? The U.S. has never let that be a concern in the combat operations it has followed. We just shrug off "collateral damage" as "That's War."
Luhansk and Donetsk have been cleaned up and their respective armed forces have joined the Russian action, mainly by keeping order but also mopping up isolated units of the Ukrainian forces.
I gave no moral pass to China and you are a bare-faced liar to say so. I only said that prudence controls which fights we get into. Have you ever intervened to help someone in violent trouble? I have, twice. In the first occasion, I had to step in and interrupt a Mexican gang beating of an Anglo kid. In the second occasion, I had to intervene in an attempted rape. If you can't understand the limitations of one's physical ability, all the moral righteousness in the world will not prevent you from searching for your teeth in a puddle.
A "sovereign nation" fails to be one when it violates the precept that governments obtain their just powers from the consent of the governed. Any government that countenances genocide loses all legitimacy. It is no longer a government but a carnivorous predator.
P.S. Don't be too sure that what is presented as "Russian atrocities" have anything to do with the Russian forces. Ukraine has already promoted a number of outright lies (the nonexistent "Ghost of Kyiv," the bogus "Russian" tank that drove over a car [it was Ukrainian], the massacre of the garrison on Snake Island [all surrendered without harm]). They have presented repainted Ukrainian armored vehicles as being captured Russian vehicles. And they have presented the victims of Ukrainian fire as being Russian atrocities.
Yep, you did.
If you only knew.
I see there is no moving you from your bubble. C'est la vie.
You cannot quote me giving China a moral pass. I did not. What bubble? Truth isn't always what we expect or want. Or, it may turn our understanding upside down. In any case, I see that you have no answer to my other points.
Nah, you just don't listen to them. You're so polarized that you actually believe Russia is on a "humanitarian" mission. It's very silly and so hyperbolic that there is no point in discussing it any further.