A very interesting theory, dreadnought. I like the way you are working to apply reasoning, thinking and logic to the issue.
One aspect of that is applying critical thinking to the relationship between different scriptural passages. That often doesn't happen, when some people discard certain passages in favor of others, one's that uphold their particular theological prejudices. (And by theological, I mean theory).
Another thing you do here is apply some critical real-world thinking, like pointing out the rather obvious illogicality of vehicles being bereft of drivers. This grounding in the real world reality, let us say, is really important.
Thirdly, you work on taking into account history: for example, suggesting that pre/mid tribulation theory was not invented until after 1800.
In my view, these three elements are all important to zoning in on the truth. Comparison and reconciliation between different scriptures, critical real-world based logic, and historical perspective.
So, I think you are well positioned to get to the truth and your approach is a good one.
That said, I'd like offer some other points and suggest a very different conclusion to the one you have reached. I'd just like to ask you to consider the points carefully, and NOT draw any hasty conclusions, but rather let the points sit for a bit and see what pops up over coming days or weeks.
The foundation for the conclusions I offer is complex and requires serious critical thinking. But considering we're just sharing on a board, I'll have to try and draw a few broad strokes as a starting point, and see how it goes. If you have questions, doubts or disagreements, then please shoot them back to me, because I believe that I can fully address anything necessary.
FIrstly, the human condition. The fall of Adam and Eve had a number of consequences. One was that they were 'reborn' into Satan (Lucifers) lineage. Their unity with the Archangel meant that they underwent a transformation that originated in him, not God. So, instead of being God's children, they became a sort of fallen creation of Satan. (This is why all must be reborn through Christ.)
Another consequence was that the human capacity to apprehend and understand truth was decimated. The Fall meant a fall into ignorance. Because humanity was spiritually 'murdered' and brought under Satan's control, our spiritual faculties were reduced to rubble. We fell into two forms of ignorance: ignorance of spiritual truth, and ignorance of material truth.
To lead us to recover our capacity has been a key focus of God's providence. Religion was inspired by God to help us overcome our spiritual ignorance and understand spiritual truths, such as who God is, what the spiritual laws are, and how we are meant to live in accordance with spiritual law. Science was inspired by God to help us overcome our material ignorance of hos his creation actually works, and our role in it.
From the viewpoint of understanding God's truth, God has had to raise us from an almost caveman-like level of ignorance and intellect, to a place where our intellect is restored back to its original intended function. Thus, over time, God has revealed truth at the level that the people of a particular era could understand it. (Think about cultures like the Greeks, or other pagans, where their cosmologies where they interpreted material laws of nature in terms of gods, etc).
As our human intellect has been restored step by step, thus God was able to reveal deeper and more profound truths, and our minds became more capable of grasping them.
God revealed the Ten Commandments to the Israelites, because they had been chosen and had the necessary connection to God to understand on that level, but when Jesus came, he revealed a much deeper understanding and truth. However, even Jesus lamented: “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come." John 16:12
So, think about it. Jesus is saying that he had a LOT more to share, a LOT more truth to share, but that because they were not ready for it, it would be revealed in the future.
The point of all this is this: Even in Jesus' day, the intellectual level of the people was not high enough for them to even grasp aspects of the truth Jesus knew. Jesus taught much in parables. Much of the scripture is also revealed in symbols, because of this very fact.
Thus, the sayings of Jesus, expressed in parables and symbols, and many of the insights of the saints, like Paul, etc, also expressed in symbols, were expressed that way because that's all that people could grasp at that point.
Fast forward to today. Today, our intellect has been raised to unimaginable levels. We understand the laws of physics to such a degree that we can design and use aircraft that weigh many, many tons to fly through the air!! Even our children study mathematics that people of Jesus day could not even imagine.
Point is, we need to realize that we are ready for an upgrade, where we can understand spiritual truths but in a logical, scientific way, that reconciles God's spiritual truth with our need to logic and evidence-based thinking.
Many believers are uncomfortable with this idea, but that is because it challenges their faith. It's hard to be open and realize that maybe we need a higher understanding of the truth that has first guided the Israelites and then our ancestors for 4000 and 2000 years. But again: John 16:12. Consider also the passage of John 3:3~14.
3:12 "If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things?"
Much of what is written in the New Testament is revealed through symbols. And they were interpreted by our forebears including the saints, because that's all they had. They did not have much of a real-world understanding of the material world, and historically, that's where they were.
But today, we can only make our way through the maze of conflicting scriptural truth if we apply the three principles you did in your comment: reconciling scripture with historical insight and real-world understanding.
ONE
A very interesting theory, dreadnought. I like the way you are working to apply reasoning, thinking and logic to the issue.
One aspect of that is applying critical thinking to the relationship between different scriptural passages. That often doesn't happen, when some people discard certain passages in favor of others, one's that uphold their particular theological prejudices. (And by theological, I mean theory).
Another thing you do here is apply some critical real-world thinking, like pointing out the rather obvious illogicality of vehicles being bereft of drivers. This grounding in the real world reality, let us say, is really important.
Thirdly, you work on taking into account history: for example, suggesting that pre/mid tribulation theory was not invented until after 1800.
In my view, these three elements are all important to zoning in on the truth. Comparison and reconciliation between different scriptures, critical real-world based logic, and historical perspective.
So, I think you are well positioned to get to the truth and your approach is a good one.
That said, I'd like offer some other points and suggest a very different conclusion to the one you have reached. I'd just like to ask you to consider the points carefully, and NOT draw any hasty conclusions, but rather let the points sit for a bit and see what pops up over coming days or weeks.
The foundation for the conclusions I offer is complex and requires serious critical thinking. But considering we're just sharing on a board, I'll have to try and draw a few broad strokes as a starting point, and see how it goes. If you have questions, doubts or disagreements, then please shoot them back to me, because I believe that I can fully address anything necessary.
FIrstly, the human condition. The fall of Adam and Eve had a number of consequences. One was that they were 'reborn' into Satan (Lucifers) lineage. Their unity with the Archangel meant that they underwent a transformation that originated in him, not God. So, instead of being God's children, they became a sort of fallen creation of Satan. (This is why all must be reborn through Christ.)
Another consequence was that the human capacity to apprehend and understand truth was decimated. The Fall meant a fall into ignorance. Because humanity was spiritually 'murdered' and brought under Satan's control, our spiritual faculties were reduced to rubble. We fell into two forms of ignorance: ignorance of spiritual truth, and ignorance of material truth.
To lead us to recover our capacity has been a key focus of God's providence. Religion was inspired by God to help us overcome our spiritual ignorance and understand spiritual truths, such as who God is, what the spiritual laws are, and how we are meant to live in accordance with spiritual law. Science was inspired by God to help us overcome our material ignorance of hos his creation actually works, and our role in it.
From the viewpoint of understanding God's truth, God has had to raise us from an almost caveman-like level of ignorance and intellect, to a place where our intellect is restored back to its original intended function. Thus, over time, God has revealed truth at the level that the people of a particular era could understand it. (Think about cultures like the Greeks, or other pagans, where their cosmologies where they interpreted material laws of nature in terms of gods, etc).
As our human intellect has been restored step by step, thus God was able to reveal deeper and more profound truths, and our minds became more capable of grasping them.
God revealed the Ten Commandments to the Israelites, because they had been chosen and had the necessary connection to God to understand on that level, but when Jesus came, he revealed a much deeper understanding and truth. However, even Jesus lamented: “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come." John 16:12
So, think about it. Jesus is saying that he had a LOT more to share, a LOT more truth to share, but that because they were not ready for it, it would be revealed in the future.
The point of all this is this: Even in Jesus' day, the intellectual level of the people was not high enough for them to even grasp aspects of the truth Jesus knew. Jesus taught much in parables. Much of the scripture is also revealed in symbols, because of this very fact.
Thus, the sayings of Jesus, expressed in parables and symbols, and many of the insights of the saints, like Paul, etc, also expressed in symbols, were expressed that way because that's all that people could grasp at that point.
Fast forward to today. Today, our intellect has been raised to unimaginable levels. We understand the laws of physics to such a degree that we can design and use aircraft that weigh many, many tons to fly through the air!! Even our children study mathematics that people of Jesus day could not even imagine.
Point is, we need to realize that we are ready for an upgrade, where we can understand spiritual truths but in a logical, scientific way, that reconciles God's spiritual truth with our need to logic and evidence-based thinking.
Many believers are uncomfortable with this idea, but that is because it challenges their faith. It's hard to be open and realize that maybe we need a higher understanding of the truth that has first guided the Israelites and then our ancestors for 4000 and 2000 years. But again: John 16:12. Consider also the passage of John 3:3~14.
3:12 "If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things?"
Much of what is written in the New Testament is revealed through symbols. And they were interpreted by our forebears including the saints, because that's all they had. They did not have much of a real-world understanding of the material world, and historically, that's where they were.
But today, we can only make our way through the maze of conflicting scriptural truth if we apply the three principles you did in your comment: reconciling scripture with historical insight and real-world understanding.
(Cont)