Okay, I know this one might strike a little close to the whole "Catholics worship Mary" debate, but try to approach this with an open mind, will ya? Let's get something straight, Intercession =/= Worship. If you don't like that idea, just ignore it.
That's all I want to hear from the Catholic Bashers and Catechist freaks alike, okay? Let's have equal ground in this discussion, because I'm gonna approach this in a way you likely never heard of before, no matter where you come from...
Let's get to it then.
First, an analogy.
Have you ever made an origami crane, frog, or ninja-man? How about just a paper plane? Paper plane, right, that's something everyone should be familiar with.
Right. So.
If you can, make one for me. right now. Do it, please. What I'm about to say will make so much more sense if you do. Made it? Okay, now make a second one. And a third. And a fourth. Four should be good enough...
How do they differ? How are they the same? Did you try putting that little crease in the back so it catches wind? Some people know about that trick, it makes it more likely it pulls upwards when you toss it, instead of nose-diving.
Alright. Enough with the mystery. Let me explain what happened.
You made something. You put your energy into something that was a blank slate, a piece of paper, and now that there are folds in it there is no going back to that same perfect sheet of paper. The creases are there, and the crinkle that formed at the nose of the plane when it bumped into the wall can't be flattened back.
Despite all that, those paper planes are your children. There have been many before them, and will be many after, but those are yours. They may have quirks; some may be rushed and rugged while others crisp and delicate; some may have awkward and uneven folds while others perfectly symmetrical.
Now... How many planes do you have to make until you make the perfect paper plane?
You might not catch what I'm laying down when I say perfect. Some will say there is no such thing as perfect. Hogwash. There is a perfect, and I can prove it.
When I say paper plane, what do you see in your mind?
What forms in your head when I tell you to imagine a paper plane?
THAT is the perfect paper plane. That idea in your mind. Perfect does exist, and you see it every time you close your eyes and imagine. Our collective imaginations tap into an ideal that exists. Specific details may vary, but how that plane functions is what matters most.
When you actually try to make it, however, circumstances as they may be prohibit you from actualizing that which you keep in the fat-folds of your brain.
But, despite that, we KNOW there is such a thing as a "perfect" paper plane. It's right there in your mind, ready to go and it fulfills your every expectation. Perfectly balanced. Perfectly creased edges. No mistakes. Pitches up on the toss, and when it bumps it crumples symmetrically, rather than bending the nose to one side or the other. In other words, it's almost like a dream come true.
There are those who say they believe in Jesus. Believe he is the Perfect Man. Yet how can you say Perfection is merely a fantasy and not actually attained while still proclaiming Christ as the Perfect Man, clean of all sin?
Even God said himself "This is [a]that my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased"
When you make a paper plane, the first one you take your time on. You are careful and plan everything out meticulously in hopes that the first attempt will fulfill that vision you hold in your mind's eye. As an artist, let me tell ya, it seldom ever works out the first time...
Even so, that first plane is your first plane. I've made a number of origami cranes in my past, as well, and I can tell you that there is always a fondness for the first one you make after a long time of neglecting the craft. It has a delicacy in a way. The paper always feels thinner. It's hard to describe, which is why I asked you to make the planes instead of just imagine it. Some nuances can only be understood through direct personal experience. This is critically important, mind you.
Anyways... There is a difference between the first paper plane you made and the FIRST AMONG the paper plans you made. One flies better than the rest, for whatever reason. Only one sits at the top spot as it pertains to matching what you saw in your mind's eye.
Such is the Truth in Christ. Jesus wasn't the first man. Adam was, and he was made with all intents of being a "one and done" sort of thing. Unfortunately, Adam did not live up to the expectations in the mind of God. God being the Creator, understands this and instead of calling it quits, knew that a Creator's Magnum Opus isn't always gonna come about from the first attempt.
Eventually, circumstances allowed Jesus to be born, fulfilling all the prophecies, and now we have the First among Men. The Son of Man. The Man God envisioned in his mind's eye, the mind's eye of mind's eyes, incarnate before all the World to revel in glory and praise that he has come at last!
But... We are missing one critical point here.
How did God birth Adam?
7 ¶ The Lord God also [g]made the man [h]of the dust of the ground, and breathed in his face breath of life, and the man was a living soul. - Genesis 2
God breathed life into Adam, who he formed in the Womb of the Earth.
He cast Adam like pouring molten metal into a mold.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRfymA6HN5Y
You see, that's where God was working at a disadvantage. The proper mold had not yet come about. Woman hadn't yet been made, so how could Man possibly be expected to be anything other than a being of the Earth when he was borne of the Earth? Of course Adam would not fulfill the vision God had, it was to be expected.
Instead, God made Adam with the hope he would not disappoint, but with the expectation that eventually a proper mold would come about from his kin which would bear His flesh incarnate. That the Man of God's Mind's Eye be made manifest in full, and please him well.
This is the dream God had of the Virgin Birth.
The Virgin Birth is a like the mold for casting, but having never been used. Anyone who has done casting can attest to just how lucky/grace-given you'd have to be for any mold to be perfect right on the first pour.
It's like inventing something, skipping the prototype phase, and it just working exactly how you intended.
I'm talking about threading a needle here...
God wagered the odds and did the impossible of the impossible. Asked the hardest of the hardest of his Creation. Such is the magnificence of God!
Concerning the Virgin Birth, only such a circumstance would be proper, if you think about it.
So, God planned for the Virginal Womb to bear His Self Incarnate.
Enter, the Virgin Mary.
Imagine you were to cast a statue.
How many times would you have to use the same mold, fine tuning it and tweaking the process, until you get the PERFECT POUR. One with little to no flashing, and requiring no extraneous polishing or filling of voids?
A dozen times? Hundreds? Thousands? Hundreds of thousands? Millions?
Some say it would be impossible...
And that's with the same mold, being used over and over and refurbished until it satisfies your goals.
The odds are already not in your favor...
Now...
Instead of being able to do it with a mold that you fine tune, the mold is virginal. Never before been cast in.
What was already impossible odds, is now beyond impossible. It was already hard enough trying to tune the mold to pour perfectly. Now you expect that a new mold which has not been tested will fulfill all that is requested of it?
Nothing is impossible for God, however...
This is the Alchemical Principle of the Virgin Birth. A womb untouched. Everything left up to insurmountable odds. A One and Done situation in every way imaginable. Fresh stock in every tool, every board, every cutting, even down to the most minute of details.
Mary represents the Creator's faith in us. She represents the Creator being so confident that THIS will be the Pour of Pours; the Casting of Castings; the Perfect Man made manifest -- his own Beloved Son, that he chose a virgin womb.
That's how much faith God had in Humanity -- that it could bear His Flesh.
The Virgin Mother Mary represents the threading of the needle of needles.
Exponentially impossible odds.
Beyond reason. Beyond understanding. The Great Mystery.
It's like sitting down right now and making a paper plane, just one, and having it be the best paper plane ever. Not just the best paper plane made by you, but the best paper plane made by any man ever.
No warm ups. No prototypes. Perfection without need of practice.
Do you now have some appreciation for how patient God truly is? To have crafted so many of our kind, yet never give up hope that One will please him beyond measure?
Do you now understand how Great is our God that he not only persevered so long until his Son be born, but that instead of discarding us, his "failed" Creations, that he cherished us above all other of his Creations?
God made each and every one of us with the expectations that we be exactly like the Man that he envisioned in his Mind when he sat down to craft us with his own blood, sweat, and tears. He would not discard us so easily. Only by disappointing him beyond measure would he ever toss us into the trash bin. Only by our own decision to refuse to fly when he offers us every opportunity to soar will he be forced to lay us down among all those others who spite God for not making them something, anything, other than a paper plane.
Instead, he made the Son of Man not so that he may measure each of us by our flaws in comparison to the Perfect Man, but so that he may cherish us for how close we are to that Man he had envisioned. That despite our flaws, we still fly even remotely close to how perfectly Jesus flies. He Loves us because we have chosen to overcome those same impossible odds he faced when he made each and every one of us.
Every time you face adversity and rise again to fight another day, God looks upon you with a Father's infinite joy in their child's success.
But we cannot forget what has brought us to this point. That which was instrumental in demonstrating the wonder and awe of our God. Mary, the Virgin Womb, offered to be God's handmaid in this endeavor. She had no substantive reason to assume that the one she bore would go on to be THE Son of Man. She could have given birth to just another David. Instead, she bore not just a King, but the King of Kings.
What faith she must have had, to sacrifice herself to what would have seemed to be impossible odds...
Both the Faith of Mary and God worked to form Jesus in her untouched womb. It could have been no other way.
The collective Faith of God and Humanity together, envisioning in their mind's eye the Perfect Being to free us from wondering whether seeking perfection is a fruitless endeavor.
Mary did something remarkable. Not only did she believe in God. She believed in Humanity. She believed that Humanity had it in us to be the proper vessel for our God.
That's why she deserves the honor above all other mortals, as the Mother of Man. She put her faith in the most impossible of impossibilities. None other before or since has had such a Perfect Faith in both God and Humanity.
She is our primary Advocate. Without Mary, there would have been none of substantial faith to have threaded the needle which is the Virgin Birth, Christ our Lord.
Don't worship her. Honor her, as the Mother who would die a thousand deaths for he children. Humanity is her child, because her Son came to Save us from ourselves. Without her Sacrifice, Jesus would not have been able to make his. And for that, I thank Mary from the bottom of my heart.
If you've read this far, I thank you. This took a lot out of me. Writing this way always drains me, and I seldom remember what I wrote as soon as it leaves my fingers. I'm gonna go to bed now, and I'll probably wake up wondering who it was who broke into my room and wrote this.
Anyways, God Bless and Keep you. Night night.
Are we just gonna start quoting platitudes from the Bible out of context to support non-existing arguments now?
I just want ONE well-written source that supports your argument that Joseph banged Mary while she was pregnant, and you can't provide anything. It's really sad. It's really, really sad, yo.
You're glowing so brightly with the Devil's Pride it's embarrassing. That you REALLY think just posting that passage in some way affirmed your argument means you're satisfied with being completely morally bankrupt.
Do you even realize what you've just done? You used the "Black Lives Matter" argument. I don't disagree with that passage, just as no sane person disagrees with the statement "Black Lives Matter." Of course they do! Of course I agree with the passage.
But you're posting it up there thinking that passage sponsors your speech.
It's the peak of Pride and detestable above all things. What you've just done in order to avoid confronting my well-laid argument is so disgusting.
Please prove me wrong. Please show me you can muster rational thought outside of slandering the Bible.
Once again, you're arguing semantics here.
Show me where you're getting your etymological references. I cannot take you for your word, because you've been unreliable thus far.
SHOW ME where you are deriving the meaning from these words. Show me you aren't just pulling the meaning out of your ass.
You've already shown me bad faith in your arguments. You've already shown that you will mince your words and bend and twist the meaning of things to suit your argument. That you backtrack and squirm around the topic at hand. I cannot take your word for it, no matter how many times you throw the the word "paralambano" at me.
Again, you are not providing references as I have asked out of necessity for this conversation to go anywhere more than semantics.
Show me where someone, anyone, even secular sources, I don't care -- show me one other person who shares in your convictions.
Show me where you are deriving your understanding then. Because I have not yet been presented with one proof that what you say and claim "in context" is as you purport it to be -- affirmed by literally anyone else.
I want to learn. I don't care if it makes me uncomfortable.
I've looked up paralambano.
https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/paralambano.html
NOTHING about its phrasing, in context or otherwise, suggests it exclusively means having sex.
Some interpretations I've read suggest it's just marriage vows. Others just in reference to betrothal customs of the day. Nothing explicitly states that the word absolutely means the two partners engaged in sexual intercourse.
So... I operated by giving you the BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT that you had a reference I did not. I have given you EVERY chance to prove your point on the semantics, and yet you still fail time and time again.
Instead of providing the reference which you are deriving your pathetic semantic argument from, you basically just told me "trust me, bruh, I know what it means better than anyone else."
I'm sorry, but that's horse shit.
Explain what you mean.
Use YOUR words!
Please. Show me you have RATIONAL THOUGHT!
I can interpret that line a MILLION WAYS!
Tell me what YOU think it means!
Explain. Describe. Illustrate.
If you think I have erred in my convictions and are using that line to "one-up" me, then DO IT! Explain it to me. How do YOU think that line applies to our conversation.
You're weaseling out of our original conversation. You're trying to hide behind the Bible. You're no different than Adam hiding his loins because he did something disgraceful before God.
If you really think you have the moral high-ground, then tell my why that is so. Otherwise, you're not one who speaks Truth but one who rapes it for his own pleasure.
You are far more guilty of going against that passage than I am.
If you disagree, prove me wrong.
Okay...
So you admit it has absolutely nothing to do with our conversation then?
I've got nothing monetary to gain from this conversation... Why are you convinced that I am making a buck off this?
Everything you've cited concerns monetary gain, though... How are you bridging THAT meaning to this conversation?
I mean... I've got nothing to gain here. I'm trying to show you the reason semantic arguments are flawed, and you're pushing back so hard for no good reason.
Let me just state what's been going on for the last few hours as clearly as I possibly can.
https://www.bibleref.com/Genesis/19/Genesis-19-5.html
All this, which led up to you posting about money and covetousness...
Which you then admitted, with this most recent post, has NOTHING to do with our conversation.
What the fuck?