It's assuming that people who directly argue a position believe the position, and are committed. I've presented plenty of arguments I'm not fully convinced on, without making explicitly clear I'm not a full believer in the theory/idea.
Devil's advocate has value, and pushing discussion forward does as well. One need not say this is what they're doing for that to be true.
Yes. It is taking people at their word. Otherwise, they are liars and frauds. But I am talking about people who insist their fantasy is real...not that it is some kind of hypothetical horse for a sophomoric bullshit session.
One need not say anything for all manner of facts to be true. What is the meaning of that point? It is like saying "the sky is blue" or "two plus two equals four."
I don't need to preface every comment I make with a big fat disclaimer stating I'm playing Devil's Advocate, or am simply attempting to open up discussion on theories, to not be a liar or fraud.
And you're making a difference where I see none. You say you're talking about people specifically insisting something is true with no proof. I'm saying that you're conflating people who do this with people who don't, but who both present their posts in a similar way.
Edit: To be clear, I don't even do this regularly if at all, but the people who do are not your punching bag.
Oh, I am pretty specific to the people who are insisting. But what is your attitude toward someone who thinks 2 + 2 = 5 is a reasonable outcome? I am hard-nosed with people who are ignorant and want to be ignorant. And that's only when they think they can talk down to me and teach me a lesson about stuff I am expert at. Otherwise, I am happy to simply explain and clarify.
Big fat disclaimers are for children. It is enough to use moderate language to introduce a point for consideration. But to declare flatly that (insert fantasy here) is "obviously so" is not an open mind, but a magical thinker.
You know, fair enough. I suppose I'm a little sensitive to responses that come across as outright dismissals after so much time hearing MSM and NPCs call everyone who disagrees with them crazy lunatics.
Someone who thinks 2+2=5 is off the deep end, even if they don't claim it with certainty. And I agree with your point about disclaimers and moderate language, as well as that people who say things that aren't proven are "obviously so" aren't being open-minded.
Forgive my initial response to your comments, looking at them more I don't really disagree with much.
It's assuming that people who directly argue a position believe the position, and are committed. I've presented plenty of arguments I'm not fully convinced on, without making explicitly clear I'm not a full believer in the theory/idea.
Devil's advocate has value, and pushing discussion forward does as well. One need not say this is what they're doing for that to be true.
Yes. It is taking people at their word. Otherwise, they are liars and frauds. But I am talking about people who insist their fantasy is real...not that it is some kind of hypothetical horse for a sophomoric bullshit session.
One need not say anything for all manner of facts to be true. What is the meaning of that point? It is like saying "the sky is blue" or "two plus two equals four."
I don't need to preface every comment I make with a big fat disclaimer stating I'm playing Devil's Advocate, or am simply attempting to open up discussion on theories, to not be a liar or fraud.
And you're making a difference where I see none. You say you're talking about people specifically insisting something is true with no proof. I'm saying that you're conflating people who do this with people who don't, but who both present their posts in a similar way.
Edit: To be clear, I don't even do this regularly if at all, but the people who do are not your punching bag.
Oh, I am pretty specific to the people who are insisting. But what is your attitude toward someone who thinks 2 + 2 = 5 is a reasonable outcome? I am hard-nosed with people who are ignorant and want to be ignorant. And that's only when they think they can talk down to me and teach me a lesson about stuff I am expert at. Otherwise, I am happy to simply explain and clarify.
Big fat disclaimers are for children. It is enough to use moderate language to introduce a point for consideration. But to declare flatly that (insert fantasy here) is "obviously so" is not an open mind, but a magical thinker.
You know, fair enough. I suppose I'm a little sensitive to responses that come across as outright dismissals after so much time hearing MSM and NPCs call everyone who disagrees with them crazy lunatics.
Someone who thinks 2+2=5 is off the deep end, even if they don't claim it with certainty. And I agree with your point about disclaimers and moderate language, as well as that people who say things that aren't proven are "obviously so" aren't being open-minded.
Forgive my initial response to your comments, looking at them more I don't really disagree with much.