We have had interpretations of scripture for the past 2000 years, and certainly progress has been made. But there is still much that we simply haven't known. To unravel the question of why and how evil stalks the planet, and us, is not easy to know, but it requires that one goes right back to basic levels of logic, and working through it. Also, its really important to grasp the idea that God has been revealing truth progressively through history. The old and new testaments are keystones, but both Jesus and Paul indicated that there was a LOT more ahead of us.
It's not enough to say its "because of our disobedience". It just isn't. If God is a Father of love, he is the Father of MORE love than anyone. That such a father would simply punish us because of disobedience is not viable logic any more.
It's not enough to say that Evil has to exist because Good exists. Evil is not complementary to Good. It is contradictory. Up and down, back and forth, left and right - light and dark - these are complementary opposites. But Evil is not complementary to Good. It is contradictory.
It's not enough to say that God created evil or made evil come about in order for his children to know forgiveness and grace. Would you want your beloved spouse to be unfaithful, violate your oaths of fidelity, almost destroying your marriage, so that THEN he/she would know that you love him/her when you forgive her, and THEN she would know what forgiveness is? Not viable logic any more. We'd consider such a person to have severe mental problems.
All such explanations are attempts to make sense of the seemingly contradictory ideas that God is love and yet evil exists. But to resolve this, we need to go deeper.
Most people believe in the concept of Free Will. Indeed Calvinists will think that everything is predestined and predetermined, but most people affirm that God created us with Free Will.
What does this imply? What is the logical outcome of this premise? It is that we were also created with responsibility. There is no freedom or free will without responsibility. If we choose something (an action), then we are responsible for that action and the outcomes. Certainly in a state of maturity. When immature, then the responsibility is less. A child makes a choice, but up to a certain point, the parent is responsible, when the child cannot be.
If a child makes a bad choice to throw a rock at a car, then the child is responsible to an extent, but the child CANNOT be responsible fully. The child cannot pay damages to the owner of the car, cannot make things right fully on their own. So the parent takes responsibility. All our societies function under acceptance of this premise. Parents are responsible.
However, to the extent that awareness and consciousness are present, then responsibility is there when free will and choice are exercised.
Now, take that idea further. Why did God give humanity free will? Was it so that we will make mistakes, be punished, so that we can learn that God loves us? True love requires free will. It requires the choice to love, free of manipulation.
Free will means responsibility, and responsibility means ownership. Being a slave means you are not responsible, and you do not own what you create. You are forced.
The fact that God gave human beings free will means he gave them responsibility, which also means he gave them the capacity to create, and the capacity to own, and the capacity to inherit everything from God.
In other words, the fulfillment of God's purpose for Adam and Eve involved certain choices by Adam and Eve themselves. Because God's purpose for A&E was the center point for God's purpose for the entire cosmos, their choices were a key part.
If A&E made the right choice, i.e kept faith in their Father, then the result would be God's Will (purpose) for them to be fulfilled. If they made the wrong choice, then God's Will for them would NOT be fulfilled. However, God's will is absolute, unchanging and eternal, so it cannot be destroyed. Therefore, it would necessarily be postponed.
Adam and Eve made the wrong choice. They chose to believe Lucifer's words, instead of God's. (Why they made that choice is a whole other topic that needs exploration and explanation.) The only way for evil to come into existence was if Lucifer went off track but then Adam and Eve united with him. If Adam and Eve had not united with Lucifer, any evil he thought of and created would be restricted and easily overcome. But because Adam and Eve were in such a key position, in the position to either accomplish God's will for them or not accomplish God's will for them, when they chose to believe in Lucifer, then Lucifer's will was realized and God's will was not fulfilled and realized.
This created a contradiction in the universe where none previously existed. Originally, there was only God and only Good and inside good, the universe was created with complementary opposites working together to manifest God's vision and ideal.
Because of their choice, A&E came to have BOTH the original good nature from God, which is indestructible, but also the evil nature inherited from fallen Lucifer, now Satan. A walking contradiction of good and evil in conflict within every human being.
We suffer evil because we have not yet completed our responsibility. Jesus opened the door to spiritual salvation, but because he had to pay the price with his own flesh and earthly life, each believer's body is still subject to Satan's accusation and claim. So even when we believe, and are cleansed, we still commit new sins.
The completion of our responsibility will come when Christ returns and once again. The purpose of the Second Coming can be seen, I think, as the final stage when the claim of Satan over our flesh and over this physical world is liquidated.
But the principle that God's will requires hsi children to ALSO make certain choices doesn't change. When Christ returns, he will not just wave a magic wand and hand out rewards. There's certainly more to it. He will require believers to do certain things to fulfill the human responsibility. E.g. "blessed are those that wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life".
The reason why we still suffer evil is because we still have responsibility to complete. How logical is that? To graduate college, you have to fulfill the requirements aka your responsibility. Until then, you do not graduate. In that state, you are still subject to the dictates of the university owners. In this analogy, Satan has been still the Owner controlling the material world, and we are subject to his influence and interference, aka evil, because we haven't yet completed the full process.
Jesus completed HIS responsibility, but he is the model, the doorway, the savior, and the reason why he must return is to complete the process for PHYSICAL salvation, not just the spiritual, which was completed through the crucifiction.
The real question is, what is our responsibility? To answer that question requires deeply going in to what Adam and Eve's responsibility was, and HOW they failed. We fulfill our responsibility by doing the reverse. Thankfully, the Old Testament and New Testament are a textbook in which God reveals HOW he has worked and guided people to fulfill the responsibility that Adam and Eve did not. But it's sort of hidden. Like a code. Like something that is only understood at the right time, aka future proves past. But its all there once the pieces are put together.
"Now we see but a dim reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known."
$0.02
PS. If anything thinks that all we need to do is just believe and wait for the kingdom to come to us, they may wish to re-read the parable of the talents. Matt 25
Thank you for taking the time to respond, and respond so wholly. If I may say, our responsibility I believe is to worship God. That's why He made us. Yes, it's simple.
Many struggle with the why. Why does God allow evil to exist? Why does God allow children to suffer? Etc. That is hard to explain to non-believers.
The evil is the furnace in which God prepares his finest tempered instruments. God has unimaginable tasks for us to complete and he requires His implements to be of the highest quality.
Adam & Eve did not know God’s forgiveness until they disobeyed. God’s Grace entered the world to take care of evil (sin). God has won. Yes… Be calm and wait for God’s kingdom to come for us!
Be calm. God wins. Why we have to suffer evil I can't say, but there will be a day when Jesus returns and when He does He returns as a Warrior.
Because our disobedience to God. Remember Adam and Eve
Firstly, think future proves past.
We have had interpretations of scripture for the past 2000 years, and certainly progress has been made. But there is still much that we simply haven't known. To unravel the question of why and how evil stalks the planet, and us, is not easy to know, but it requires that one goes right back to basic levels of logic, and working through it. Also, its really important to grasp the idea that God has been revealing truth progressively through history. The old and new testaments are keystones, but both Jesus and Paul indicated that there was a LOT more ahead of us.
It's not enough to say its "because of our disobedience". It just isn't. If God is a Father of love, he is the Father of MORE love than anyone. That such a father would simply punish us because of disobedience is not viable logic any more.
It's not enough to say that Evil has to exist because Good exists. Evil is not complementary to Good. It is contradictory. Up and down, back and forth, left and right - light and dark - these are complementary opposites. But Evil is not complementary to Good. It is contradictory.
It's not enough to say that God created evil or made evil come about in order for his children to know forgiveness and grace. Would you want your beloved spouse to be unfaithful, violate your oaths of fidelity, almost destroying your marriage, so that THEN he/she would know that you love him/her when you forgive her, and THEN she would know what forgiveness is? Not viable logic any more. We'd consider such a person to have severe mental problems.
All such explanations are attempts to make sense of the seemingly contradictory ideas that God is love and yet evil exists. But to resolve this, we need to go deeper.
Most people believe in the concept of Free Will. Indeed Calvinists will think that everything is predestined and predetermined, but most people affirm that God created us with Free Will.
What does this imply? What is the logical outcome of this premise? It is that we were also created with responsibility. There is no freedom or free will without responsibility. If we choose something (an action), then we are responsible for that action and the outcomes. Certainly in a state of maturity. When immature, then the responsibility is less. A child makes a choice, but up to a certain point, the parent is responsible, when the child cannot be.
If a child makes a bad choice to throw a rock at a car, then the child is responsible to an extent, but the child CANNOT be responsible fully. The child cannot pay damages to the owner of the car, cannot make things right fully on their own. So the parent takes responsibility. All our societies function under acceptance of this premise. Parents are responsible.
However, to the extent that awareness and consciousness are present, then responsibility is there when free will and choice are exercised.
Now, take that idea further. Why did God give humanity free will? Was it so that we will make mistakes, be punished, so that we can learn that God loves us? True love requires free will. It requires the choice to love, free of manipulation.
Free will means responsibility, and responsibility means ownership. Being a slave means you are not responsible, and you do not own what you create. You are forced.
The fact that God gave human beings free will means he gave them responsibility, which also means he gave them the capacity to create, and the capacity to own, and the capacity to inherit everything from God.
In other words, the fulfillment of God's purpose for Adam and Eve involved certain choices by Adam and Eve themselves. Because God's purpose for A&E was the center point for God's purpose for the entire cosmos, their choices were a key part.
If A&E made the right choice, i.e kept faith in their Father, then the result would be God's Will (purpose) for them to be fulfilled. If they made the wrong choice, then God's Will for them would NOT be fulfilled. However, God's will is absolute, unchanging and eternal, so it cannot be destroyed. Therefore, it would necessarily be postponed.
Adam and Eve made the wrong choice. They chose to believe Lucifer's words, instead of God's. (Why they made that choice is a whole other topic that needs exploration and explanation.) The only way for evil to come into existence was if Lucifer went off track but then Adam and Eve united with him. If Adam and Eve had not united with Lucifer, any evil he thought of and created would be restricted and easily overcome. But because Adam and Eve were in such a key position, in the position to either accomplish God's will for them or not accomplish God's will for them, when they chose to believe in Lucifer, then Lucifer's will was realized and God's will was not fulfilled and realized.
This created a contradiction in the universe where none previously existed. Originally, there was only God and only Good and inside good, the universe was created with complementary opposites working together to manifest God's vision and ideal.
Because of their choice, A&E came to have BOTH the original good nature from God, which is indestructible, but also the evil nature inherited from fallen Lucifer, now Satan. A walking contradiction of good and evil in conflict within every human being.
We suffer evil because we have not yet completed our responsibility. Jesus opened the door to spiritual salvation, but because he had to pay the price with his own flesh and earthly life, each believer's body is still subject to Satan's accusation and claim. So even when we believe, and are cleansed, we still commit new sins.
The completion of our responsibility will come when Christ returns and once again. The purpose of the Second Coming can be seen, I think, as the final stage when the claim of Satan over our flesh and over this physical world is liquidated.
But the principle that God's will requires hsi children to ALSO make certain choices doesn't change. When Christ returns, he will not just wave a magic wand and hand out rewards. There's certainly more to it. He will require believers to do certain things to fulfill the human responsibility. E.g. "blessed are those that wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life".
The reason why we still suffer evil is because we still have responsibility to complete. How logical is that? To graduate college, you have to fulfill the requirements aka your responsibility. Until then, you do not graduate. In that state, you are still subject to the dictates of the university owners. In this analogy, Satan has been still the Owner controlling the material world, and we are subject to his influence and interference, aka evil, because we haven't yet completed the full process.
Jesus completed HIS responsibility, but he is the model, the doorway, the savior, and the reason why he must return is to complete the process for PHYSICAL salvation, not just the spiritual, which was completed through the crucifiction.
The real question is, what is our responsibility? To answer that question requires deeply going in to what Adam and Eve's responsibility was, and HOW they failed. We fulfill our responsibility by doing the reverse. Thankfully, the Old Testament and New Testament are a textbook in which God reveals HOW he has worked and guided people to fulfill the responsibility that Adam and Eve did not. But it's sort of hidden. Like a code. Like something that is only understood at the right time, aka future proves past. But its all there once the pieces are put together.
"Now we see but a dim reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known."
$0.02
PS. If anything thinks that all we need to do is just believe and wait for the kingdom to come to us, they may wish to re-read the parable of the talents. Matt 25
Thank you for taking the time to respond, and respond so wholly. If I may say, our responsibility I believe is to worship God. That's why He made us. Yes, it's simple.
Many struggle with the why. Why does God allow evil to exist? Why does God allow children to suffer? Etc. That is hard to explain to non-believers.
The evil is the furnace in which God prepares his finest tempered instruments. God has unimaginable tasks for us to complete and he requires His implements to be of the highest quality.
Adam & Eve did not know God’s forgiveness until they disobeyed. God’s Grace entered the world to take care of evil (sin). God has won. Yes… Be calm and wait for God’s kingdom to come for us!