Greek Orthodox has all the ritual, and many degrees less hierarchy. And equal claim to the textual eschatology.
I'm not convinced as to the Roman Catholic's derivation of the Bible as being superior to the KJ, Tyndale or Waldenses; they've made their own changes, which have been argued even within the RC church as to accuracy.
But if you study and you pray to God with a true heart, I'm glad you are comfortable in the Roman Catholic church. My experience with the laity and the parish-level priests have generally been very positive. And the structure provides many opportunities, as I admire the work of the Franciscans and some other orders and services.
You've made a good case. Thank you for laying it out.
It relates the persecution during the past to the persecution going on today by the Governments.
God has and alway will protect the true Church of Jesus Christ. The True Church believes in Christ alone, by Faith alone, through Scriptures alone, for salvation. I’m other words man’s traditions have nothing to do with salvation.
Divinely inspired means that God is the source, which is objective and absolute truth. It definitely doesn't mean subjective feelings or "someone's truth."
Nothing that is in opposition to God's will is divinely inspired. Killing innocents is in opposition to God's will, thus the decision to have an abortion is an exercise of human free will. Our free will comes from God, but the things we do with it are on us, not Him. Committing acts that oppose God's will is the definition of sin, and His third commandment explicitly warns against doing it in His name.
2 Timothy 3:16 NKJV
[16] All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
Inspiration means God breathed.
The men who wrote the New Testament were eye witnesses of Jesus for the 3 years of His ministry.
Jesus also said, “John 14:26 NKJV
[26] But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
2 Peter 1:20-21 NKJV
[20] knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, [21] for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
If you say it is written by men who were not inspired by God, then it is not believable, and your faith cannot save you.
Romans 10:9-11 NKJV
[9] that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. [10] For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. [11] For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
The first Christians had no hierarchy. The church was the people and they met in each other's homes to celebrate communion and to worship together. They were equals in worshipping God, had direct access to God, and all were active in the church. You can see this if you read Paul's letters.
When the church became more formal and codified -- whether Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant -- the people became mere spectators in the pews, separated by a railing, watching the priesthood/ministers conduct the worship service from a distance. A physical barrier was literally placed between God and His people.
Is this not similar to where we, in the US, find ourselves currently in relationship to our own government? The elites have taken over the rule of government and we are mere spectators to the law in our own land. There is a "bar" between us and our courts. It is no longer, "We the People," with direct access into how our government functions.
I would argue that, in neither case, is this a healthy dynamic.
The people are not mere spectators in the pews. We participate in the Mass via the rituals, prayers, and responses, which some non-Catholics perceive to be either meaningless pagan, or demonic. It's the same principle with singing hymns. Everyone knows the words and the music, so they can participate.
Can you have Communion without a priest to perform it?
If not, you're not an equal to the priesthood, you're beholden to it.
You don't need the priesthood if you have the Holy Spirit within you. Nothing trumps the perfection of the triune God. Go straight to Him. He is your Father, after all, and He loves you and wants the best for you. Jesus' death ripped the veil asunder in the Holy of Holies. Now, man can approach God without fear, through Jesus Christ.
What can sinful man do for you? All men sin. All men are corrupted.
Question for you: Have you ever read the entire Bible? Do you know what it says? If not, why not? As an anon, you insist on seeing the sauce, to read it for yourself. Do you desire the same level of knowledge of your faith?
You don't need to give me an answer. You just need to think about it, fren.
No, Communion in the Catholic Church requires a priest for consecration of the host. Priests take vows to dedicate their lives to continue Christ's mission and they receive the Sacrament of Holy Orders, which is a sacrament of apostolic ministry. Your concern about not being equal to priests or beholden to them isn't an issue. Priests serve God by serving the Church and parishioners.
What can sinful corrupted man do for us? Jesus said that "where there are 2 or 3 gathered in my name, there I am among them." The power of prayer is stronger when we pray together, even though we are all sinners.
Of course I have read the entire Bible. The Catholic Mass on Sundays covers the entire Bible in three-year cycles. Each Mass includes a reading each from the Old Testament, New Testament, Gospels. The Old Testament and Gospel readings are usually related. I know what is in it after reading it many times over my lifetime, and I still learn something new every time.
Like everything else on earth, the Catholic church is suffering from long-standing corruption. It was, however, the early Catholic Church that evangelized despite persecution by the Romans, compiled the books of the Bible, and kept the lights of western civilization burning during the Dark Ages after the fall of the Roman Empire.
Many Roman Catholics love Messiah and live lives of service to Heaven. I consider many of them brothers and sisters.
Unfortunately though Catholicism has many pagan-sourced and human traditions that they've placed above the Word of God.
Ex. God forbids His people to bow to pictures or statues and He forbids His people to pray to any other spirit/person other than God. These aren't obscure either - these are literally the first of the Big 10.
There is a Great prophetic Apostasy on its way. I'm sorry to say, the day is approaching fast where Catholics will be forced to choose between either Roman Catholicism or Messiah.
Common misunderstanding people have about Catholics praying to Blessed Mother Mary or Saints...Catholics don't pray to Mary or St. Anthony, St. Jude, etc.. Catholics ask Mary and the saints to pray for them. To intercede for them. Just like if I said I would pray for you if you needed prayer. That's what Catholics do - ask them to pray. (If someone is praying TO them, then they were misled somewhere.) Jesus is THE focus, and Our Lord and Savior - as with all our brothers and sisters in Christ.
I've never seen anyone bow to a statue of a saint. And MANY Catholics are not enamored with the Pope or the Vatican.
satan loves that Christians are divided. It's his goal. We are no match divided. Together though, as a united body of Christ, we will withstand his attacks. We all need to focus on who unites us. Not what divides us.
Your answer is the common Catholic answer of course. Lol
Did you know that when the children of Israel worshiped the golden calf - when they all bowed, asked for intercession, sang, celebrated, sacrificed, ate and drank around the molten image - they were all focused on the LORD God? Read it in Exodus.
Intercession = prayer. There is only 1 Interceder, Messiah and He commanded us to ask the Father directly in His Name.
I agree we need unity in the Body of Messiah. Satan has used a lot of wolves in sheep's clothing and hirelings over the millennia to cause disunity - because what unity can there be between light and darkness?
And this is the question that will only get more urgent to every follower of Messiah: Realistically, what unity do the Pope and I have that I would give him my spiritual allegiance?
I believe in God. Full stop. How you worship whatever religion doesn’t matter. Just boxes to divide. We’d get along a lot better without the containers.
I was pleasantly surprised to see this post literally moments after perusing over my local Catholic parish website, pondering whether to go back to church for the first time in 50 years. It sure seems like we are in the end times.
I was thinking maybe I should ask the priest about those lingering doubts I have about Catholicism. Seeing your post pop up when it did makes me think to ask you instead.
My concern is the Church's ties to Satanism. My brother (a former altar boy) once joked that if Satan exists, he probably lives in the basement at the Vatican.
I am troubled by the shape of Vatican Hall, which looks exactly like a serpent, inside and out. Also, the altar at St. Peter's Basilica has symbolism which seemingly mocks the parishoners (the sheep). Once I saw it, I can't unsee it. Here is a video where an internet guy named Jonathan Kleck points out the Satanic symbolism at the Vatican:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZCRtKlwnj8
In the above referenced video, I was most troubled by Jonathan's interpretation of a Latin Mass where 3 different priests at 3 different masses say in Latin that Jesus is Satan's son! That part starts at about 6:20 in the video. The priest says:
"Flammas eius lucifer matutinus inveniat: ille, inquam, Lucifer, qui nescit occasum. Christus Fiilius tuus (!!!!) qui, regressus ab inferis, humano generi serenus illuxit, et vivit et regnat in soecula soeculorum."
Kleck says it means this: "Flaming Lucifer Lucifer finds Mankind.
I say: Oh Lucifer who will never be defeated, Christ is your son(!)"
However, Google Translate shows a slightly different translation: "May the morning lucifer find its flames: he, I say, Lucifer, who knows not the setting. Christ your Son (!!!!) who, having returned from the underworld, has shone brightly upon the human race, and lives and reigns forever and ever."
Mr. Kleck has a lot of videos on this subject.
I was raised Catholic and attended 12 years of Catholic school but all this information which I did not have back then is unsettling to say the least.
I am interested in your take on this.
I will just say both Lucifer and Jesus were called the Morning Star at different times by different entities, so that doesn't necessarily clarify anything for me. As for the snake effect being the camera perspective warping the image, here is a link to a shot of the inside, Vatican Hall: https://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/events/event.dir.html/content/vaticanevents/en/2022/1/5/udienzagenerale.html There are several images off to the right which show this is serpent symbolism from different angles. You can even see its fangs in one shot.
That is a good and valid point. No I am not leaving my corrupt country. I still have a genuine question about why the Vatican has such seemingly demonic symbolism though.
What do you think of the catholic churches that are not roman catholic? Who do not use the latin mass. Who are 1-step removed from the pope.
Then on the other side of the coin I know Lutherans and Methodists who regularly attend roman catholic mass, even receiving communion (sacrilege) yet criticize that church. Why arent they attending church in their own denomination?
I applaud anyone who has found their faith and inspired by their church - as long as they are not 'cafeteria christians'.
You forgot the Eucharist. The source and summit.
Greek Orthodox has all the ritual, and many degrees less hierarchy. And equal claim to the textual eschatology.
I'm not convinced as to the Roman Catholic's derivation of the Bible as being superior to the KJ, Tyndale or Waldenses; they've made their own changes, which have been argued even within the RC church as to accuracy.
But if you study and you pray to God with a true heart, I'm glad you are comfortable in the Roman Catholic church. My experience with the laity and the parish-level priests have generally been very positive. And the structure provides many opportunities, as I admire the work of the Franciscans and some other orders and services.
You've made a good case. Thank you for laying it out.
Go watch the movie, “The Essential Church”.
It relates the persecution during the past to the persecution going on today by the Governments.
God has and alway will protect the true Church of Jesus Christ. The True Church believes in Christ alone, by Faith alone, through Scriptures alone, for salvation. I’m other words man’s traditions have nothing to do with salvation.
No they were not directly written by God. They were written by men who were divinely inspired by God.
Divinely inspired means that God is the source, which is objective and absolute truth. It definitely doesn't mean subjective feelings or "someone's truth."
Nothing that is in opposition to God's will is divinely inspired. Killing innocents is in opposition to God's will, thus the decision to have an abortion is an exercise of human free will. Our free will comes from God, but the things we do with it are on us, not Him. Committing acts that oppose God's will is the definition of sin, and His third commandment explicitly warns against doing it in His name.
2 Timothy 3:16 NKJV [16] All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
Inspiration means God breathed.
The men who wrote the New Testament were eye witnesses of Jesus for the 3 years of His ministry.
Jesus also said, “John 14:26 NKJV [26] But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
2 Peter 1:20-21 NKJV [20] knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, [21] for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
If you say it is written by men who were not inspired by God, then it is not believable, and your faith cannot save you.
Romans 10:9-11 NKJV [9] that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. [10] For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. [11] For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
The first Christians had no hierarchy. The church was the people and they met in each other's homes to celebrate communion and to worship together. They were equals in worshipping God, had direct access to God, and all were active in the church. You can see this if you read Paul's letters.
When the church became more formal and codified -- whether Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant -- the people became mere spectators in the pews, separated by a railing, watching the priesthood/ministers conduct the worship service from a distance. A physical barrier was literally placed between God and His people.
Is this not similar to where we, in the US, find ourselves currently in relationship to our own government? The elites have taken over the rule of government and we are mere spectators to the law in our own land. There is a "bar" between us and our courts. It is no longer, "We the People," with direct access into how our government functions.
I would argue that, in neither case, is this a healthy dynamic.
The people are not mere spectators in the pews. We participate in the Mass via the rituals, prayers, and responses, which some non-Catholics perceive to be either meaningless pagan, or demonic. It's the same principle with singing hymns. Everyone knows the words and the music, so they can participate.
Can you have Communion without a priest to perform it?
If not, you're not an equal to the priesthood, you're beholden to it.
You don't need the priesthood if you have the Holy Spirit within you. Nothing trumps the perfection of the triune God. Go straight to Him. He is your Father, after all, and He loves you and wants the best for you. Jesus' death ripped the veil asunder in the Holy of Holies. Now, man can approach God without fear, through Jesus Christ.
What can sinful man do for you? All men sin. All men are corrupted.
Question for you: Have you ever read the entire Bible? Do you know what it says? If not, why not? As an anon, you insist on seeing the sauce, to read it for yourself. Do you desire the same level of knowledge of your faith?
You don't need to give me an answer. You just need to think about it, fren.
God Bless!
No, Communion in the Catholic Church requires a priest for consecration of the host. Priests take vows to dedicate their lives to continue Christ's mission and they receive the Sacrament of Holy Orders, which is a sacrament of apostolic ministry. Your concern about not being equal to priests or beholden to them isn't an issue. Priests serve God by serving the Church and parishioners.
What can sinful corrupted man do for us? Jesus said that "where there are 2 or 3 gathered in my name, there I am among them." The power of prayer is stronger when we pray together, even though we are all sinners.
Of course I have read the entire Bible. The Catholic Mass on Sundays covers the entire Bible in three-year cycles. Each Mass includes a reading each from the Old Testament, New Testament, Gospels. The Old Testament and Gospel readings are usually related. I know what is in it after reading it many times over my lifetime, and I still learn something new every time.
Like everything else on earth, the Catholic church is suffering from long-standing corruption. It was, however, the early Catholic Church that evangelized despite persecution by the Romans, compiled the books of the Bible, and kept the lights of western civilization burning during the Dark Ages after the fall of the Roman Empire.
Many Roman Catholics love Messiah and live lives of service to Heaven. I consider many of them brothers and sisters.
Unfortunately though Catholicism has many pagan-sourced and human traditions that they've placed above the Word of God.
Ex. God forbids His people to bow to pictures or statues and He forbids His people to pray to any other spirit/person other than God. These aren't obscure either - these are literally the first of the Big 10.
There is a Great prophetic Apostasy on its way. I'm sorry to say, the day is approaching fast where Catholics will be forced to choose between either Roman Catholicism or Messiah.
Common misunderstanding people have about Catholics praying to Blessed Mother Mary or Saints...Catholics don't pray to Mary or St. Anthony, St. Jude, etc.. Catholics ask Mary and the saints to pray for them. To intercede for them. Just like if I said I would pray for you if you needed prayer. That's what Catholics do - ask them to pray. (If someone is praying TO them, then they were misled somewhere.) Jesus is THE focus, and Our Lord and Savior - as with all our brothers and sisters in Christ.
I've never seen anyone bow to a statue of a saint. And MANY Catholics are not enamored with the Pope or the Vatican.
satan loves that Christians are divided. It's his goal. We are no match divided. Together though, as a united body of Christ, we will withstand his attacks. We all need to focus on who unites us. Not what divides us.
God bless you.
True. Satan not only hates us but he hates the Blessed Mother Mary.
Your answer is the common Catholic answer of course. Lol
Did you know that when the children of Israel worshiped the golden calf - when they all bowed, asked for intercession, sang, celebrated, sacrificed, ate and drank around the molten image - they were all focused on the LORD God? Read it in Exodus.
Intercession = prayer. There is only 1 Interceder, Messiah and He commanded us to ask the Father directly in His Name.
I agree we need unity in the Body of Messiah. Satan has used a lot of wolves in sheep's clothing and hirelings over the millennia to cause disunity - because what unity can there be between light and darkness?
And this is the question that will only get more urgent to every follower of Messiah: Realistically, what unity do the Pope and I have that I would give him my spiritual allegiance?
I believe in God. Full stop. How you worship whatever religion doesn’t matter. Just boxes to divide. We’d get along a lot better without the containers.
I was pleasantly surprised to see this post literally moments after perusing over my local Catholic parish website, pondering whether to go back to church for the first time in 50 years. It sure seems like we are in the end times. I was thinking maybe I should ask the priest about those lingering doubts I have about Catholicism. Seeing your post pop up when it did makes me think to ask you instead. My concern is the Church's ties to Satanism. My brother (a former altar boy) once joked that if Satan exists, he probably lives in the basement at the Vatican. I am troubled by the shape of Vatican Hall, which looks exactly like a serpent, inside and out. Also, the altar at St. Peter's Basilica has symbolism which seemingly mocks the parishoners (the sheep). Once I saw it, I can't unsee it. Here is a video where an internet guy named Jonathan Kleck points out the Satanic symbolism at the Vatican: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZCRtKlwnj8 In the above referenced video, I was most troubled by Jonathan's interpretation of a Latin Mass where 3 different priests at 3 different masses say in Latin that Jesus is Satan's son! That part starts at about 6:20 in the video. The priest says: "Flammas eius lucifer matutinus inveniat: ille, inquam, Lucifer, qui nescit occasum. Christus Fiilius tuus (!!!!) qui, regressus ab inferis, humano generi serenus illuxit, et vivit et regnat in soecula soeculorum." Kleck says it means this: "Flaming Lucifer Lucifer finds Mankind. I say: Oh Lucifer who will never be defeated, Christ is your son(!)" However, Google Translate shows a slightly different translation: "May the morning lucifer find its flames: he, I say, Lucifer, who knows not the setting. Christ your Son (!!!!) who, having returned from the underworld, has shone brightly upon the human race, and lives and reigns forever and ever." Mr. Kleck has a lot of videos on this subject. I was raised Catholic and attended 12 years of Catholic school but all this information which I did not have back then is unsettling to say the least. I am interested in your take on this.
I will just say both Lucifer and Jesus were called the Morning Star at different times by different entities, so that doesn't necessarily clarify anything for me. As for the snake effect being the camera perspective warping the image, here is a link to a shot of the inside, Vatican Hall: https://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/events/event.dir.html/content/vaticanevents/en/2022/1/5/udienzagenerale.html There are several images off to the right which show this is serpent symbolism from different angles. You can even see its fangs in one shot.
All powerful organizations have corruption in the hierarchies. Are you going to leave your country because of the corruption in the government?
That is a good and valid point. No I am not leaving my corrupt country. I still have a genuine question about why the Vatican has such seemingly demonic symbolism though.
And it’s recognized by many within the church itself…the original St Michael prayer admits as much.
My response to some comments on this post.
What do you think of the catholic churches that are not roman catholic? Who do not use the latin mass. Who are 1-step removed from the pope.
Then on the other side of the coin I know Lutherans and Methodists who regularly attend roman catholic mass, even receiving communion (sacrilege) yet criticize that church. Why arent they attending church in their own denomination?
I applaud anyone who has found their faith and inspired by their church - as long as they are not 'cafeteria christians'.