Yea, they got a whole bunch of land taken away from them by the white man, and now a team name taken away by a bunch of white man hating extremists. I feel sorry for the native American Indians. They've gotten screwed at every turn, except for their casinos. (But I wonder if the mob has infiltrated that?)
The people we found here were the scattered and broken dregs of the cultures that existed thousands of years ago. They were on a clear path to extinction that was already inevitable over 2000 years ago due to brutal wars that wiped out all traces of the civilizations they had built. When they did get access to higher level technology their first impulse was to use it to murder each other with greater efficiency. They were already well on their way to disappearing long before we got here.
they got a whole bunch of land taken away from them by the white man
That version of history ignores a couple of key facts:
(a) Indians didn't spring up out of the soil here; they walked across the ancient Bering Land Bridge from Siberia where they weren't happy and emigrated to America like everyone else not from here; and
(b) White men didn't steal anything; they fought the Indians for this land (with each side employing the men and weapons at their disposal) and won fair and square; too many to count gave their scalps and lives for it.
Most of the tribes are still on the ancestral land their tribes claimed. The instances where they are not are mostly due to old tribal conflicts, either internally or with rival tribes/bands. Displacement is not the rule, it has always been the exception. The majority basically just got neighbors. That's it. Not conquerors, not overlords. Just new neighbors. They have 2 citizenships now. First to their Tribe which is a micro nation exempted from the bullshit laws of their secondary citizenship to the US. They have every benefit of being American citizens and none of the responsibilities taxes or duties.
The only thing the white man is brutal about is war. In peace the white man is absurdly generous and trusting.
Most first nations people I have met that soberly work for a living and invest in and build their micro nation are typically very conservative and do not see themselves as victims at all. Their ancestors made treaty with a technologicaly and numerically overwhelming force and were assimilated intact and sovereign.
That's a better outcome than most of our tribes got from Rome.
*Edit, a huge exception to the displacement rule are the first nations that went to Canada. The railroad barons had senators in their pockets and it's very unlikely they would have offered a fair or reasonable treaty to the tribes that were in the way of the railroad cartel.
The whole topic is touchy, which is why the grievance and victimization hustlers are all over it, because there are/were definitely tribes that got conned, annihilated or scattered -- but the overwhelming majority of first nations you'll meet today are NOT those tribes.
And the buffalo kill-off was 100% bad, but the blame there is with a few bad organizations, not the entire nation. The national interest was always to do the right thing. It's inverted that the government and corporations now place themselves as the protectors of law virtue and honor and the people get the shame of every corporate government atrocity committed on racial grievance grounds.
Even if they walked across the Bering Sea, which I do believe they did, they were here thousands of years before the White man. They they were the "original owners" of this land. They build cities and communities and brought about religious celebrations for their gods. Would that not make them the owners of the land, first? The White man comes in and says, "heck, we want to take the land next to that wonderful stream and push the Indians out of the area so we don't have to share". I'm very sure I'm not correct on how it all played out, but the Indians were here first and set up some rudimentary civilization and when the White guys wanted it, they took it. Yea, a few beads and trinkets exchanged hands from time to time for ownership of some land, but the Whites wanted to expand and the Indians were in the way. Thus they got screwed because they were taking up space the White man wanted. In my government sponsored education I don't remember reading about the White man wanting to peacefully co-exist with the Indian, only take what they wanted and thus the Indians began raiding the lonely settlements to try and push out the Whites. I'm not saying the Indians had a hard and fast certificate of ownership of all lands between oceans which was conveyed unto them by some higher being, but I think their form of lifestyle didn't mix well with the European centric leanings of white immigrants. CQVFEFE, I like comiserating with interesting people and you always write down good ideas. I'm not trying to bust your chops or toss shade on any race of people. I'm just thinking about how it would feel from an Indian perspective to have your entire life uprooted because a great white wave of humanity was decending onto your world and you have no way to stop it...bows and arrows against guns.
I'm just thinking about how it would feel from an Indian perspective to have your entire life uprooted because a great white wave of humanity was decending onto your world and you have no way to stop it...bows and arrows against guns.
Fair enough anon. I'm guessing it would feel like being up against a superior challenger with superior firepower and superior motivation to win. An enemy who was absolutely not going to slink back across the pond to kiss the ring of King George or get executed, just because when they hit the shores here, the land was inhabited by warring primitive tribes stuck in prehistoric times, wielding a spear, arrows, or a triangular rock tied to a stick.
It's the way of the world. God himself must have designed it this way. Humans are an intensely combattive, tribal, and fiercely territorial species, exactly like most other primates. As a species we love to fight—if we don't do it physically, we do it verbally or online, even paying millions to others to battle in front of us in a ring. To the victor go the spoils.
The Indians weren't peaceful innocents that government education would lead you to believe. They were ruthless. Read the book by Herman Lehmann called "Nine Years Among the Indians 1870-1879". You will not feel sorry for the Indians. Besides, how do you know these "original owners" didn't murder the people before them and steal "their" land, we just don't know about it? It wasn't about "the white guys wanted it, they took it". Read about how ruthless and insensitive the Indians were. They were savages. Most of the white families just wanted to live, and the Indians attacked and killed them, usually taking the women and children if they lived and abusing them horrifically. They aren't as innocent and helpless as the government education will lead you to believe.
Thanks for the book title. I'll look into it. Sorry to say, but for all my life I've been programmed to believe the Indians were pleasant, peaceful and helpful to the Whites. i.e. helping the Pilgrims survive their first winter in Plymoth Rock. And the Indians who lived West of the Mississippi were always in the "right" and they had been taken advantage of by the White man. Your book suggestion might open my eyes to how they truly were. I love researching things and this will be on my list.
Yea, they got a whole bunch of land taken away from them by the white man, and now a team name taken away by a bunch of white man hating extremists. I feel sorry for the native American Indians. They've gotten screwed at every turn, except for their casinos. (But I wonder if the mob has infiltrated that?)
The people we found here were the scattered and broken dregs of the cultures that existed thousands of years ago. They were on a clear path to extinction that was already inevitable over 2000 years ago due to brutal wars that wiped out all traces of the civilizations they had built. When they did get access to higher level technology their first impulse was to use it to murder each other with greater efficiency. They were already well on their way to disappearing long before we got here.
That version of history ignores a couple of key facts:
(a) Indians didn't spring up out of the soil here; they walked across the ancient Bering Land Bridge from Siberia where they weren't happy and emigrated to America like everyone else not from here; and
(b) White men didn't steal anything; they fought the Indians for this land (with each side employing the men and weapons at their disposal) and won fair and square; too many to count gave their scalps and lives for it.
Most of the tribes are still on the ancestral land their tribes claimed. The instances where they are not are mostly due to old tribal conflicts, either internally or with rival tribes/bands. Displacement is not the rule, it has always been the exception. The majority basically just got neighbors. That's it. Not conquerors, not overlords. Just new neighbors. They have 2 citizenships now. First to their Tribe which is a micro nation exempted from the bullshit laws of their secondary citizenship to the US. They have every benefit of being American citizens and none of the responsibilities taxes or duties.
The only thing the white man is brutal about is war. In peace the white man is absurdly generous and trusting.
Most first nations people I have met that soberly work for a living and invest in and build their micro nation are typically very conservative and do not see themselves as victims at all. Their ancestors made treaty with a technologicaly and numerically overwhelming force and were assimilated intact and sovereign.
That's a better outcome than most of our tribes got from Rome.
*Edit, a huge exception to the displacement rule are the first nations that went to Canada. The railroad barons had senators in their pockets and it's very unlikely they would have offered a fair or reasonable treaty to the tribes that were in the way of the railroad cartel.
The whole topic is touchy, which is why the grievance and victimization hustlers are all over it, because there are/were definitely tribes that got conned, annihilated or scattered -- but the overwhelming majority of first nations you'll meet today are NOT those tribes.
And the buffalo kill-off was 100% bad, but the blame there is with a few bad organizations, not the entire nation. The national interest was always to do the right thing. It's inverted that the government and corporations now place themselves as the protectors of law virtue and honor and the people get the shame of every corporate government atrocity committed on racial grievance grounds.
Even if they walked across the Bering Sea, which I do believe they did, they were here thousands of years before the White man. They they were the "original owners" of this land. They build cities and communities and brought about religious celebrations for their gods. Would that not make them the owners of the land, first? The White man comes in and says, "heck, we want to take the land next to that wonderful stream and push the Indians out of the area so we don't have to share". I'm very sure I'm not correct on how it all played out, but the Indians were here first and set up some rudimentary civilization and when the White guys wanted it, they took it. Yea, a few beads and trinkets exchanged hands from time to time for ownership of some land, but the Whites wanted to expand and the Indians were in the way. Thus they got screwed because they were taking up space the White man wanted. In my government sponsored education I don't remember reading about the White man wanting to peacefully co-exist with the Indian, only take what they wanted and thus the Indians began raiding the lonely settlements to try and push out the Whites. I'm not saying the Indians had a hard and fast certificate of ownership of all lands between oceans which was conveyed unto them by some higher being, but I think their form of lifestyle didn't mix well with the European centric leanings of white immigrants. CQVFEFE, I like comiserating with interesting people and you always write down good ideas. I'm not trying to bust your chops or toss shade on any race of people. I'm just thinking about how it would feel from an Indian perspective to have your entire life uprooted because a great white wave of humanity was decending onto your world and you have no way to stop it...bows and arrows against guns.
Fair enough anon. I'm guessing it would feel like being up against a superior challenger with superior firepower and superior motivation to win. An enemy who was absolutely not going to slink back across the pond to kiss the ring of King George or get executed, just because when they hit the shores here, the land was inhabited by warring primitive tribes stuck in prehistoric times, wielding a spear, arrows, or a triangular rock tied to a stick.
It's the way of the world. God himself must have designed it this way. Humans are an intensely combattive, tribal, and fiercely territorial species, exactly like most other primates. As a species we love to fight—if we don't do it physically, we do it verbally or online, even paying millions to others to battle in front of us in a ring. To the victor go the spoils.
The Indians weren't peaceful innocents that government education would lead you to believe. They were ruthless. Read the book by Herman Lehmann called "Nine Years Among the Indians 1870-1879". You will not feel sorry for the Indians. Besides, how do you know these "original owners" didn't murder the people before them and steal "their" land, we just don't know about it? It wasn't about "the white guys wanted it, they took it". Read about how ruthless and insensitive the Indians were. They were savages. Most of the white families just wanted to live, and the Indians attacked and killed them, usually taking the women and children if they lived and abusing them horrifically. They aren't as innocent and helpless as the government education will lead you to believe.
Thanks for the book title. I'll look into it. Sorry to say, but for all my life I've been programmed to believe the Indians were pleasant, peaceful and helpful to the Whites. i.e. helping the Pilgrims survive their first winter in Plymoth Rock. And the Indians who lived West of the Mississippi were always in the "right" and they had been taken advantage of by the White man. Your book suggestion might open my eyes to how they truly were. I love researching things and this will be on my list.