We do not rotate at 1,000mph. That is a measure of tangential velocity that is only valid at the equator; that value decreases to 0 at the poles. Tangential velocity has no bearing on the acceleration generated by earth's rotation. Rotational velocity is the value for measuring spin, and earth's rotational velocity is once every 24 hours. Have someone spin you in a merry go round exactly once in a 24 hour period, and let me know how fast that feels.
The North star is actually 300-400 light years away; your figure would put the north star inside Jupiter's orbit. It does not appear to move relative to us because it is orbiting the center of the Milky Way along with our sun. It's like two racecars driving right next to each other around a racetrack; they don't appear to move very much relative to each other because both are moving in the same direction.
Sitting on a merry go round with 4' radius is no fun at 1 rpd. Now extend that radius by 3963 miles. The distance you travel on your globe sized merry go round is the perimeter of that circle or 2πR. 3963x2x3.14=24,887.64 per day ÷ 24 hours/day = 1037 miles per hour. One hell of a carnival ride.
You don't seem to grasp that the pole star doesn't move. Your straw man is that it is riding side by side with the sun but somehow the sun moves all day long and the north star sits still in the exact same location. Build that model and calculate the velocity of polaris. It must keep up with our rotation so lets use your merry go round but add some aluminum extension arms. Instead of a 4000 mile spoke length, we need 433 light years. 433ly x 6 trillion miles per LY x2xπ ÷ 24 = 6.798e14 mph. Keep in mind this is only the rotation in one plane. Don't forget to spiral around and zoom straight. Pause and digest. Why is one star so far away going to such unfathomable lengths to stalk us perfectly if we are but a speck. Could the Bible be right? Did Werner Von Braun and his band of Nazi scientists exploit the relatively new Copernicus heliocetric model to hide God?
Once again, that is tangential velocity that is only applicable at the equator. Moreover, velocity does not impart a force, only acceleration does. Force equals mass times acceleration; this is one of the most basic concepts even in Newtonian mechanics.
The acceleration due to earth's rotation at the equator (where it's effect is strongest) is given by a=omega^2*R, where omega is angular velocity (7.292E-5 rad/s), and R is the distance between you and the axis of earth's spin. At the equator, this number is the same as earth's equatorial radius, 6,378 km.
Plugging all those numbers in, you arrive at 0.0339 m/s^2. Acceleration due to earth's gravity is on average 9.81 m/s^2. And that's the maximum acceleration due to earth's rotation, the effect decreases the closer you get to the poles where R becomes 0. At maximum it is 0.34% earth's gravity; you're not going to feel that.
Applying the same equation to earth's orbit around the sun, the acceleration due to that motion is 0.005998 m/s^2, or about 0.061% acceleration due to gravity. Once again, you're never going to feel that.
You don't seem to grasp that the pole star doesn't move.
Your straw man is that it is riding side by side with the sun but somehow the sun moves all day long and the north star sits still in the exact same location.
The sun moves relative to what? The north star sits still relative to what?
Your entire objection to celestial mechanics is based around your lack of understanding of relative motion. If two cars drive around a racetrack at exactly 60 mph each, what is their motion relative to each other?
Instead of a 4000 mile spoke length, we need 433 light years. 433ly x 6 trillion miles per LY x2xπ ÷ 24 = 6.798e14 mph.
What are you getting at here? Polaris doesn't orbit around the sun like earth does.
Why is one star so far away going to such unfathomable lengths to stalk us perfectly
You are assigning agency and intelligence to an inanimate object. That's like saying the earth is greedy and selfish because it pulls objects back down to its surface.
Could the Bible be right?
The Bible is right, but it does not state in any way that the earth is flat. Every flat earth use of the Bible requires pulling a verse out of context, insisting on a literal meaning in spite of textual evidence for metaphorical meaning, and deliberately interpreting it under the assumption that the flat earth model is already viable. Even though everyone in ancient times knew the earth was round. The Greeks were the first (that we know of) to accurately measure its circumference in 300 BC, but multiple ancient cultures knew that we lived on a sphere long before that.
Literally hundreds of verses are crystal clear in context. You can simply start at the beginning in Genesis to see God placed two lights in the firmament, the Greater sun to rule the day and the lesser for night, and the stars. Exodus and Ezekiel both described the raquia ( Firmament) as hard as glass and clear pavement blue as sapphire. However, Job 38:14 is visual with the basic shape. When a king pressed his seal into clay or wax, the impression of the ring formed the clay in the middle and squeezed the excess out around the perimeter just like Antarctica. Amazing God would choose that example instead of a ball. The sun and moon run their circuit like a race track. Joshua describes the sun being halted from its circuit. The most devastating would be revelation claiming the stars will fall to earth. Holy spinning water ball, arcturas, beatlejuice, the sun, and all the countless stars that dwarf our sun will somehow find our little speck of sand. Oh my. I better open my window to cool off. Hey I'm only doing 60mph on cruise control with no acceleration and the force of this wind about blew me away. I can't imagine what 1000mph wind would do. Peace out brother. I was you two years ago. It's the most bizarre scientific hoax ever. I was outraged that professional engineers and scientists would believe such profound differences than what we learned in school. We can't find the curve (Suez canal), don't account for rotation in flights or sniper school, can't explain Polaris fixed in place, can't go to Antarctica, can't explain why southern flights refuel north of the equator, can't explain why God describes his earth as a still foot stool and we are like grasshoppers underneath his throne. The hoax was to hide God and his creation. The Fourth Commandment tells us to remember his memorial of his creation. The day is the woman in the red dress to steal your focus from the purpose of the Sabbath. Physically prove or observe any of the theories you argued above. Its hard to admit that we were tricked. The tower of Babel makes no sense unless his throne is right there on top of us as described in exodus and Ezekiel. Peace. Ill not reply again since Cat will likely slam his trap shut. Reagan nailed it when he said the globalists would need aliens to convince everyone to embrace one world government to fight the common enemy. Don't fall for the alien hoax.
Literally hundreds of verses are crystal clear in context.
The mere fact that there is a debate on this subject, let alone the fact that the overwhelming majority of Christians and Jews do not share your flat earth views, suggests otherwise.
You say that the sun, moon, and stars are in the firmament, and that the firmament is solid. How then do each of these objects move at different speeds and relative to each other? This a rehash of the epicycles invented by the geocentrists in medieval times. Their model quickly fell apart because it became far to convoluted, and it still was incongruent with observation. The paths taken by all celestial bodies across the night sky can only be explained by the heliocentric model; geocentricism became outdated 400 years ago.
Furthermore, the word "firmament" simply means "something that is firm". The word has no definite shape associated with it. You're assuming that it has the exact shape and properties that your model requires. You perfectly illustrated my point of presupposing a flat earth model and reading it into the text to "prove" flat earth.
I found the passage in Ezekiel 1 that references a firmament.
And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above. Eze. 1:22
And there was a voice from the firmament that was over their heads, when they stood, and had let down their wings. Eze. 1:25
Note the phrases "upon the heads" and "that was over their heads", both referring to the heads of the angels and wheel creatures. Why would the passage be so specific about this phrase if the firmament was always over everyone's heads? "Firmament" here simply refers to a solid structure that the angels possessed, not something that encompasses the entire world.
Let's try Job 38:12-15:
12Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days;
And caused the dayspring to know his place;
13That it might take hold of the ends of the earth,
That the wicked might be shaken out of it?
14It is turned as clay to the seal;
And they stand as a garment.
15And from the wicked their light is withholden,
And the high arm shall be broken.
Note the phrase "as clay to the seal". In literature this is called a simile; a figure of speech that is not meant to be taken literally. If you insist on taking this passage literally, you must also interpret verse 12 literally, where the dawn (dayspring) is an intelligent entity that must be taught where to be. You must also then interpret verse 14 as stating that the ends of the earth are also like a garment. Flat earthers don't seem nearly as keen on using that analogy.
Since the firmament is a solid structure, and was created to have water both above and below it, the most reasonable conclusion is that the firmament is the earth's crust. It was created with some water above it (pre-flood seas), and some water trapped below. During the Flood, the crust split open (the fountains of the great deep), and this water gushed out under high pressure. It fell back down as rain (the windows of heaven being opened) and flooded the world.
Amazing God would choose that example instead of a ball.
Argument from silence. The fact that God did not use a sphere analogy does not mean the earth isn't a sphere. Analogies and metaphors throughout scripture are more commonly used to teach spiritual truths, not scientific ones. Where the Bible speaks on science it is accurate, but it is less concerned about science and more concerned about spiritual matters.
Joshua describes the sun being halted from its circuit.
Because that's how that phenomenon looks from an earth based observer. There is a perfectly reasonable explanation for the earth standing still in real world cosmology; Joshua's example isn't even the first or last time the sun has "stood still".
The most devastating would be revelation claiming the stars will fall to earth. Holy spinning water ball, arcturas, beatlejuice, the sun, and all the countless stars that dwarf our sun will somehow find our little speck of sand.
While much of Revelation can be easily interpreted literally, much of it is metaphorical as well, much like OT prophets. If you insist on interpreting everything here literally, then explain how the woman of Rev. 12 is clothed with the sun. This makes no literal sense even in the flat earth model.
You are retroactively interpreting the biblical use word "star" with the stricter, more modern scientific definition. In ancient times the word was used to describe anything visible in the night sky that wasn't the sun or moon. That's why the Greeks called the planets "wandering stars", which is where our word planet comes from. Even in modern times, what do we call meteors that burn up in earth's atmosphere? Shooting stars. Shooting stars start at one end of the sky and fly toward the other, going down to the horizon. Almost looks like they're stars "falling to earth".
Job 38:7 closely identifies stars and angels. We know that literally speaking they are not the same thing, but they are thematically related in scripture. Revelation could just as easily be talking about fallen angels being cast down to earth.
This entire argument is a classic example of the straw man fallacy. You have "defeated" a position that no one takes.
Hey I'm only doing 60mph on cruise control with no acceleration and the force of this wind about blew me away. I can't imagine what 1000mph wind would do.
When you're driving in a car, you are moving relative to the earth's surface and to it's atmosphere. That's why the wind exerts a force on you, you are moving relative to it. The atmosphere rotates with the earth. Once again you either have no clue how relative motion works, or you deliberately ignore it so that you can create another strawman.
If the atmosphere ever were moving relative to the earth's surface at 1,000 mph, the force of friction between the atmosphere and the surface would slow the atmosphere down and pull it in the same direction as the earth's rotation and at the same speed (which depends on latitude). The atmosphere is in perfect sync with the earth's rotation, and if it somehow ever got out of sync, friction would pull it right back into sync.
I was you two years ago.
No you were not. You were just as ignorant then as you are now.
don't account for rotation in flights or sniper school
This is patently false. You can literally see and measure the earth's rotation in real time with the Coriolis force. Snipers (and anyone dealing with ballistics) take this force into account all the time, the effect increases with increasing range. Sometimes flight manuals or other documents will tell you to assume a flat, nonrotating earth. The mere fact that they have to tell you to assume this implies that it is not reality, but an approximation. An approximation that is easier to do, less mentally taxing, and gives you results that are good enough for the task at hand. It is a practical concession. It is not a statement about the nature of reality.
can't explain Polaris fixed in place
I just did. You either refuse to believe it because you're emotionally attached to your narrative, or you lack the IQ necessary to comprehend relative motion.
can't go to Antarctica
This is also patently false. You flat earthers love making up stuff that doesn't exist. You can go to Antarctica anytime you'd like, you just need to get permission from the various countries who's section of the continent you plan to travel through. This can get you buried in red tape really quickly, so most people go through a tour guide who handles the legal stuff for you. Flat earthers, instead of putting in some work to make this happen, take the lazy route and lie that no one's allowed there at all.
can't explain why God describes his earth as a still foot stool and we are like grasshoppers underneath his throne.
Once again, the Bible is filled with metaphorical language, especially when it is talking about our relationship with God, and especially when it comes to the prophets. Do you believe that Israel and Judah are literally women and literally sisters?
If the Bible describes a phenomenon in terms which, if interpreted literally, violate every piece of observational and mathematical evidence known to mankind, then the more likely cause is that the Bible is speaking in metaphor. That doesn't make it untrue.
The day is the woman in the red dress to steal your focus from the purpose of the Sabbath.
See? You use metaphor yourself.
Also, the Sabbath was fulfilled in Christ. The round earth model does not distract from the Sabbath, either as the day the Israelites observed nor as our final, spiritual Sabbath in Christ.
Its hard to admit that we were tricked.
It's even harder when the person saying we've been tricked has no idea how the most basic concepts in physics work, and all of his arguments are straw men and flat out lies.
The tower of Babel makes no sense unless his throne is right there on top of us
No it does not. The men building Babel simply thought that their tower could reach "heaven", which as we see in Genesis 1 can refer to the earth's atmosphere. Nothing is said about reaching God's throne, their only stated motive for building the tower is so that they can stay in one place in defiance of God's command to spread out. Literally nothing about the shape of the earth is implied here.
But let's say these men were trying to reach God. Just because they thought their tower could reach God doesn't mean that it could. That is just as ridiculous as saying Babel was actually an alien teleportation gate. Furthermore, we now know more about earth's structure and atmosphere, how vast the universe truly is, and how far away God is by virtue of not being contained by the universe. With our modern understanding of cosmology, we can laugh at those fools for thinking their tower could reach God.
Reagan nailed it when he said the globalists would need aliens to convince everyone to embrace one world government to fight the common enemy. Don't fall for the alien hoax.
Complete non sequitur. Standard cosmology has nothing to do with the existence of aliens. They are just as unlikely to exist. I don't believe in aliens, and nor do the vast majority of Christians who still recognize that the earth is indeed round.
We do not rotate at 1,000mph. That is a measure of tangential velocity that is only valid at the equator; that value decreases to 0 at the poles. Tangential velocity has no bearing on the acceleration generated by earth's rotation. Rotational velocity is the value for measuring spin, and earth's rotational velocity is once every 24 hours. Have someone spin you in a merry go round exactly once in a 24 hour period, and let me know how fast that feels.
The North star is actually 300-400 light years away; your figure would put the north star inside Jupiter's orbit. It does not appear to move relative to us because it is orbiting the center of the Milky Way along with our sun. It's like two racecars driving right next to each other around a racetrack; they don't appear to move very much relative to each other because both are moving in the same direction.
Sitting on a merry go round with 4' radius is no fun at 1 rpd. Now extend that radius by 3963 miles. The distance you travel on your globe sized merry go round is the perimeter of that circle or 2πR. 3963x2x3.14=24,887.64 per day ÷ 24 hours/day = 1037 miles per hour. One hell of a carnival ride.
You don't seem to grasp that the pole star doesn't move. Your straw man is that it is riding side by side with the sun but somehow the sun moves all day long and the north star sits still in the exact same location. Build that model and calculate the velocity of polaris. It must keep up with our rotation so lets use your merry go round but add some aluminum extension arms. Instead of a 4000 mile spoke length, we need 433 light years. 433ly x 6 trillion miles per LY x2xπ ÷ 24 = 6.798e14 mph. Keep in mind this is only the rotation in one plane. Don't forget to spiral around and zoom straight. Pause and digest. Why is one star so far away going to such unfathomable lengths to stalk us perfectly if we are but a speck. Could the Bible be right? Did Werner Von Braun and his band of Nazi scientists exploit the relatively new Copernicus heliocetric model to hide God?
Once again, that is tangential velocity that is only applicable at the equator. Moreover, velocity does not impart a force, only acceleration does. Force equals mass times acceleration; this is one of the most basic concepts even in Newtonian mechanics.
The acceleration due to earth's rotation at the equator (where it's effect is strongest) is given by a=omega^2*R, where omega is angular velocity (7.292E-5 rad/s), and R is the distance between you and the axis of earth's spin. At the equator, this number is the same as earth's equatorial radius, 6,378 km.
Plugging all those numbers in, you arrive at 0.0339 m/s^2. Acceleration due to earth's gravity is on average 9.81 m/s^2. And that's the maximum acceleration due to earth's rotation, the effect decreases the closer you get to the poles where R becomes 0. At maximum it is 0.34% earth's gravity; you're not going to feel that.
Applying the same equation to earth's orbit around the sun, the acceleration due to that motion is 0.005998 m/s^2, or about 0.061% acceleration due to gravity. Once again, you're never going to feel that.
The sun moves relative to what? The north star sits still relative to what?
Your entire objection to celestial mechanics is based around your lack of understanding of relative motion. If two cars drive around a racetrack at exactly 60 mph each, what is their motion relative to each other?
What are you getting at here? Polaris doesn't orbit around the sun like earth does.
You are assigning agency and intelligence to an inanimate object. That's like saying the earth is greedy and selfish because it pulls objects back down to its surface.
The Bible is right, but it does not state in any way that the earth is flat. Every flat earth use of the Bible requires pulling a verse out of context, insisting on a literal meaning in spite of textual evidence for metaphorical meaning, and deliberately interpreting it under the assumption that the flat earth model is already viable. Even though everyone in ancient times knew the earth was round. The Greeks were the first (that we know of) to accurately measure its circumference in 300 BC, but multiple ancient cultures knew that we lived on a sphere long before that.
Literally hundreds of verses are crystal clear in context. You can simply start at the beginning in Genesis to see God placed two lights in the firmament, the Greater sun to rule the day and the lesser for night, and the stars. Exodus and Ezekiel both described the raquia ( Firmament) as hard as glass and clear pavement blue as sapphire. However, Job 38:14 is visual with the basic shape. When a king pressed his seal into clay or wax, the impression of the ring formed the clay in the middle and squeezed the excess out around the perimeter just like Antarctica. Amazing God would choose that example instead of a ball. The sun and moon run their circuit like a race track. Joshua describes the sun being halted from its circuit. The most devastating would be revelation claiming the stars will fall to earth. Holy spinning water ball, arcturas, beatlejuice, the sun, and all the countless stars that dwarf our sun will somehow find our little speck of sand. Oh my. I better open my window to cool off. Hey I'm only doing 60mph on cruise control with no acceleration and the force of this wind about blew me away. I can't imagine what 1000mph wind would do. Peace out brother. I was you two years ago. It's the most bizarre scientific hoax ever. I was outraged that professional engineers and scientists would believe such profound differences than what we learned in school. We can't find the curve (Suez canal), don't account for rotation in flights or sniper school, can't explain Polaris fixed in place, can't go to Antarctica, can't explain why southern flights refuel north of the equator, can't explain why God describes his earth as a still foot stool and we are like grasshoppers underneath his throne. The hoax was to hide God and his creation. The Fourth Commandment tells us to remember his memorial of his creation. The day is the woman in the red dress to steal your focus from the purpose of the Sabbath. Physically prove or observe any of the theories you argued above. Its hard to admit that we were tricked. The tower of Babel makes no sense unless his throne is right there on top of us as described in exodus and Ezekiel. Peace. Ill not reply again since Cat will likely slam his trap shut. Reagan nailed it when he said the globalists would need aliens to convince everyone to embrace one world government to fight the common enemy. Don't fall for the alien hoax.
The mere fact that there is a debate on this subject, let alone the fact that the overwhelming majority of Christians and Jews do not share your flat earth views, suggests otherwise.
You say that the sun, moon, and stars are in the firmament, and that the firmament is solid. How then do each of these objects move at different speeds and relative to each other? This a rehash of the epicycles invented by the geocentrists in medieval times. Their model quickly fell apart because it became far to convoluted, and it still was incongruent with observation. The paths taken by all celestial bodies across the night sky can only be explained by the heliocentric model; geocentricism became outdated 400 years ago.
Furthermore, the word "firmament" simply means "something that is firm". The word has no definite shape associated with it. You're assuming that it has the exact shape and properties that your model requires. You perfectly illustrated my point of presupposing a flat earth model and reading it into the text to "prove" flat earth.
I found the passage in Ezekiel 1 that references a firmament.
Note the phrases "upon the heads" and "that was over their heads", both referring to the heads of the angels and wheel creatures. Why would the passage be so specific about this phrase if the firmament was always over everyone's heads? "Firmament" here simply refers to a solid structure that the angels possessed, not something that encompasses the entire world.
Let's try Job 38:12-15:
Note the phrase "as clay to the seal". In literature this is called a simile; a figure of speech that is not meant to be taken literally. If you insist on taking this passage literally, you must also interpret verse 12 literally, where the dawn (dayspring) is an intelligent entity that must be taught where to be. You must also then interpret verse 14 as stating that the ends of the earth are also like a garment. Flat earthers don't seem nearly as keen on using that analogy.
Since the firmament is a solid structure, and was created to have water both above and below it, the most reasonable conclusion is that the firmament is the earth's crust. It was created with some water above it (pre-flood seas), and some water trapped below. During the Flood, the crust split open (the fountains of the great deep), and this water gushed out under high pressure. It fell back down as rain (the windows of heaven being opened) and flooded the world.
Source for further reading: http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/PartII.html
Argument from silence. The fact that God did not use a sphere analogy does not mean the earth isn't a sphere. Analogies and metaphors throughout scripture are more commonly used to teach spiritual truths, not scientific ones. Where the Bible speaks on science it is accurate, but it is less concerned about science and more concerned about spiritual matters.
Because that's how that phenomenon looks from an earth based observer. There is a perfectly reasonable explanation for the earth standing still in real world cosmology; Joshua's example isn't even the first or last time the sun has "stood still".
Source: https://www.barrysetterfield.org/biblicaldisc.htm#longday
When you're driving in a car, you are moving relative to the earth's surface and to it's atmosphere. That's why the wind exerts a force on you, you are moving relative to it. The atmosphere rotates with the earth. Once again you either have no clue how relative motion works, or you deliberately ignore it so that you can create another strawman.
If the atmosphere ever were moving relative to the earth's surface at 1,000 mph, the force of friction between the atmosphere and the surface would slow the atmosphere down and pull it in the same direction as the earth's rotation and at the same speed (which depends on latitude). The atmosphere is in perfect sync with the earth's rotation, and if it somehow ever got out of sync, friction would pull it right back into sync.
No you were not. You were just as ignorant then as you are now.
This is patently false. You can literally see and measure the earth's rotation in real time with the Coriolis force. Snipers (and anyone dealing with ballistics) take this force into account all the time, the effect increases with increasing range. Sometimes flight manuals or other documents will tell you to assume a flat, nonrotating earth. The mere fact that they have to tell you to assume this implies that it is not reality, but an approximation. An approximation that is easier to do, less mentally taxing, and gives you results that are good enough for the task at hand. It is a practical concession. It is not a statement about the nature of reality.
I just did. You either refuse to believe it because you're emotionally attached to your narrative, or you lack the IQ necessary to comprehend relative motion.
This is also patently false. You flat earthers love making up stuff that doesn't exist. You can go to Antarctica anytime you'd like, you just need to get permission from the various countries who's section of the continent you plan to travel through. This can get you buried in red tape really quickly, so most people go through a tour guide who handles the legal stuff for you. Flat earthers, instead of putting in some work to make this happen, take the lazy route and lie that no one's allowed there at all.
Once again, the Bible is filled with metaphorical language, especially when it is talking about our relationship with God, and especially when it comes to the prophets. Do you believe that Israel and Judah are literally women and literally sisters?
If the Bible describes a phenomenon in terms which, if interpreted literally, violate every piece of observational and mathematical evidence known to mankind, then the more likely cause is that the Bible is speaking in metaphor. That doesn't make it untrue.
See? You use metaphor yourself.
Also, the Sabbath was fulfilled in Christ. The round earth model does not distract from the Sabbath, either as the day the Israelites observed nor as our final, spiritual Sabbath in Christ.
It's even harder when the person saying we've been tricked has no idea how the most basic concepts in physics work, and all of his arguments are straw men and flat out lies.
No it does not. The men building Babel simply thought that their tower could reach "heaven", which as we see in Genesis 1 can refer to the earth's atmosphere. Nothing is said about reaching God's throne, their only stated motive for building the tower is so that they can stay in one place in defiance of God's command to spread out. Literally nothing about the shape of the earth is implied here.
But let's say these men were trying to reach God. Just because they thought their tower could reach God doesn't mean that it could. That is just as ridiculous as saying Babel was actually an alien teleportation gate. Furthermore, we now know more about earth's structure and atmosphere, how vast the universe truly is, and how far away God is by virtue of not being contained by the universe. With our modern understanding of cosmology, we can laugh at those fools for thinking their tower could reach God.
Complete non sequitur. Standard cosmology has nothing to do with the existence of aliens. They are just as unlikely to exist. I don't believe in aliens, and nor do the vast majority of Christians who still recognize that the earth is indeed round.