A lightning storm over CERN last night, have they opened a portal? Any Swiss pedes on here to confirm or deny?
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You make great points but to play devils advocate, we hardly know all there is to know on the sub atomic level. What we do know has been confirmed by other people anyway and the only ones who do know by experience are probably doing the sub atomic version of throwing shit at a wall and seeing what sticks. In Cern. Or other colliders.In other words, I am a big proponent of everything we know is a lie or at least stretched truth.
Nothing wrong with playing devil's advocate. However, it has to be done based on available evidence. And unfortunately, the popular conception of portals or alternate dimensions has virtually no evidence supporting even its existence, much less that CERN is exploiting such phenomena. While physicists don't know everything about subatomic particles, they have a really good idea of how they behave, and simply smashing a few of them together is not going to have any adverse effect on the environment.
Ditto with the assertion that everything is a lie or at best partial truth. To make an analogy with history, it is within the realm of possibility than aspects of history have been altered or fabricated. However, unless evidence is put forward to support it, simply asserting that history is a lie is both irrational and unhelpful.
It may be irrational and unhelpful but its also putting forth a whole LOT of faith that the science you think is true, is actually true. Especially when you are talking about theories and things you just can't prove yourself. You are basing a good portion of that knowledge you have, and its obvious you are an intelligent person, on things you cannot prove yourself. Is there a possibility, that maybe you have been fooled. Just a bit? I am not going to even claim I have the knowledge you do with science. I am just asking you to stand back and look at the whole picture. No possibility?
Yes, and so does everyone else. Everyone bases much of their knowledge on things they cannot directly prove. And even if you can directly "prove" something, you're putting faith in yourself that your own senses and mental faculties are reliable. Which, of course, is more useful than just giving up and saying that no one can know anything.
Can you prove by yourself that Covid and its vaccine are bioweapons? Can you prove by yourself that the 2020 election was stolen? No, we both arrive at those conclusions based on the evidence and arguments put forward by others. Should we be concerned about placing faith in these people who have brought evidence for these claims? Of course not, unless there was evidence that the vaccines and election were legit (highly unlikely imo).
My issue with the "(insert topic here) is a lie" groups is that they tend to force "mainstream science" to prove a negative. For example, when someone puts forward the reasons that we know the earth is a globe, flat earthers come out and say, "no, we've all been lied to! You're a sheep who blindly follows mainstream science!" The problem with this argument is that it forces the globe-earther to prove a negative; to prove that the evidence for a globe earth isn't fabricated. The fact of the matter is that it's not the job of the globe earther to prove that their evidence hasn't been faked, as they've already done the legwork to openly display their evidence and show that their theory is valid. It's the job of the flat-earther to prove that the evidence for a globe earth is flawed, and that their system better explains available evidence. Something which they have failed to do on both fronts.
The flat-earth example is perhaps extreme, but it illustrates the principle I'm trying to convey. It's not enough to say "gee, you're placing an awful lot of faith in what we think to be true, are you sure we haven't been lied to?." If one puts forward a theory on any subject, it's their job to prove that their theory is valid, not the job of "mainstreamers" to prove that their position can't be wrong.
We ought to think something is true provided that it is the best explanation for currently available evidence. The only reason to change what we think is true is if 1) someone points out that the current paradigm doesn't adequately explain available evidence, or 2) new evidence comes along that contradicts the current paradigm. Concern about "excessive faith" isn't a substantial enough reason by itself to change what we think is true, otherwise it be almost impossible to hold almost anything as true at all.
To go back to the original topic of CERN, its dectractors have not put forth adequate evidence that CERN creates portals or is anything but a particle accelerator. All they have are worries about a Shiva statue and speculation based on a lack of familiarity with how particle physics actually works. Ironically, there is far more evidence that CERN detractors (not you though) are utterly ignorant of particle physics than there is evidence that CERN is nefarious, based solely on my own interactions with said detractors.
I don't expect anyone to be an expert in particle physics (I'm not, just decently well-read about it), but if anyone is going to criticize or speculate about CERN, then they should have some familiarity with the underlying physics, enough to actually make their case. CERN has done the work to show to the world exactly what it is doing and why. It is now time for its detractors to put in a similar amount of work, not just speculate from their keyboards because some quantum mystic told them that portals are a thing. It is then, not a matter of faith that CERN is exactly what it claims to be, but the only reasonable conclusion based on lack of evidence to the contrary.
Great reply and everything you said is true. I also realize we HAVE to go by the best explanation provided by currently available evidence. Otherwise we would just go around in a circle bumping into walls. Faith alone is not a good enough reason to question everything we know. Belief in the human animal and how evil they can be is enough for me to question everything we know because I can see that everyday. Maybe not directly but to different degrees all around me. What lengths they will go to to keep power. Or trample their fellow man for anykind of gain. Or by beating a dog and leaving it tied to a tree until it dies. Of all the things I can believe and backup with my senses that is one.
I do not think our species is all evil. Knowing the evil that runs this place we live in, as its visible everywhere, I also believe they did not give us all the rules to the game. Knowledge is power and power is theirs. That is reason enough for me to believe they gave us just enough to not walk in circles and bump into walls but pretty close.
As for portals and what it takes to open one or if that is even possible, I have no idea. I do think if it is possible and they know this information it won't ever be shared. Just my perspective. It is a sad fact that it has come to a point that unless I can smell, see,hear, feel or taste something, I have to doubt it. Video, audio, pictures , tv , numbers all can be manipulated to make the masses believe anything now.