So everyone on this board is going to Hell in a handbasket then, I take it. All of America is cursed because our ancestors fought the Authority of the British Empire.
Romans 13:1-2 Let every soul be subject to higher powers: for there is no power but from God: and those that are, are ordained of God. Therefore he that resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God. And they that resist, purchase to themselves damnation.
Naturally, we are not to obey any laws which would cause us to sin, but outside of this, we are called to obey the government.
MOST of today's laws and regulations ARE SINS -- they harm the innocent, steal from the productive to wreak havoc in aggressive wars and among the American people with "regulation" that harms the masses while enriching the hyper-wealthy, and so on.
The now-mostly-forgotten Common Law was a reasonable framework, and Jesus' single new Commandment (to love one another) is truly ALL we need for the base of a legal framework, since Love includes allowing others their Freedom (you don't enslave, harm, steal from, or tyrannize those you love).
As Cicero pointed out: The more laws, the more corruption. What does that make modern America, for instance?
Even in Jesus' day, governments were nightmares of corruption, cruelty, and evil. I've always questioned those two verses; I can't comment on the translation but the plain-text reading of them is simply WRONG and I can't help but wonder if a scribe or whoever wrote them (don't say "God" because human hands wrote the words and humans do NOT always get things right -- not to mention all the tinkering that was done as time went on) was perhaps either describing something that SHOULD and WOULD be right IF the world were a healthy place instead of being run by criminals and psychopaths, AND/OR was trying to shield the young Christian movement from government attacks and outright democide.
John: 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
Ignoring what the passage says is akin to saying that when the bible calls homosexuality an abomination, it doesn't really mean it.
There's no two ways about what is being said, as is the case in many passages. The obvious solution here is that the Bible is right while you are wrong, and that when it says you will purchase damnation for disobeying the government, it means that government is an inherent good (when rightly ordered). Also, how can one disobey every worldly authority and then honestly claim that they'd "obey God and only God".
Further, it is patently obvious that permissiveness and "freedom to do whatever I want" doesn't lead to moral societies. Having the freedom to shoot up heroin on the streets while taking a shit has destroyed democrat-run cities, despite the fact that neither of those things "enslave, harm, steal from, or tyrannize those you love". In short, I've never seen an example of a morally permissive society that was successful long term.
Regulations are not sinful. It is not a sin for the government to require a license to fish, for example, and it is also not a sin to get such a license. Therefore, it is a sin to not obey such a law. The same goes for harmful business regulations. It's not great, and the laws should be changed, but until such a time they should be obeyed since it's not a sin to follow such regulations (generally).
Ultimately, the government compelling doctors to inject poison into people is one thing. The government doing shit we don't like is another. Whether we like it or not, and I'm sure this won't be popular around here, the Christian answer is to obey such laws, not disobey them "because freedom". Changing them is obviously preferable.
Edit to add: The Bible is perfect, unchanged, and scribes didn't mess it up. God made sure of this, since if He didn't the Bible would be useless.
Edit 2: I'd also point out that there are plenty of cases of seemingly conflicting verses in the Bible. They always can be reconciled, and in this case, the reconciliation of Romans 13 with verses like John 13:34-35 is that government is good and loving each other isn't actually the only thing to do. The point is just that without love, all the other laws are useless.
Ultimately, the government compelling doctors to inject poison into people is one thing. The government doing shit we don't like is another. Whether we like it or not, and I'm sure this won't be popular around here, the Christian answer is to obey such laws, not disobey them "because freedom". Changing them is obviously preferable.
So, you are saying that "injecting poison" is something that YOU get to decide to disobey, but other things not? How does that work if the Bible is "perfect, unchanged, and scribes didn't mess it up."
I disagree with your entire interpretation here. Government, as we have known it, is coercion, and coercion is a crime. That's no way to run a society, and because it ATTRACTS and EMPOWERS psychopaths and sociopaths, governments have always been criminal enterprises and typically mass-murderers. Jesus was murdered by Roman government soldiers, as were many (millions?) of people in Rome and Roman territories who did not deserve such punishment.
If the US government, or your local city council for that matter, ordered you to murder children, would you?
Do you actually believe that God would WANT YOU TO just because "He" told you to obey the government?
God gave us free will and a conscience. Not using them to obey Jesus commandment that we "Love one another" is a sin.
So everyone on this board is going to Hell in a handbasket then, I take it. All of America is cursed because our ancestors fought the Authority of the British Empire.
Etc.
Romans 13:1-2 Let every soul be subject to higher powers: for there is no power but from God: and those that are, are ordained of God. Therefore he that resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God. And they that resist, purchase to themselves damnation.
Naturally, we are not to obey any laws which would cause us to sin, but outside of this, we are called to obey the government.
MOST of today's laws and regulations ARE SINS -- they harm the innocent, steal from the productive to wreak havoc in aggressive wars and among the American people with "regulation" that harms the masses while enriching the hyper-wealthy, and so on.
The now-mostly-forgotten Common Law was a reasonable framework, and Jesus' single new Commandment (to love one another) is truly ALL we need for the base of a legal framework, since Love includes allowing others their Freedom (you don't enslave, harm, steal from, or tyrannize those you love).
As Cicero pointed out: The more laws, the more corruption. What does that make modern America, for instance?
Even in Jesus' day, governments were nightmares of corruption, cruelty, and evil. I've always questioned those two verses; I can't comment on the translation but the plain-text reading of them is simply WRONG and I can't help but wonder if a scribe or whoever wrote them (don't say "God" because human hands wrote the words and humans do NOT always get things right -- not to mention all the tinkering that was done as time went on) was perhaps either describing something that SHOULD and WOULD be right IF the world were a healthy place instead of being run by criminals and psychopaths, AND/OR was trying to shield the young Christian movement from government attacks and outright democide.
John: 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
Ignoring what the passage says is akin to saying that when the bible calls homosexuality an abomination, it doesn't really mean it.
There's no two ways about what is being said, as is the case in many passages. The obvious solution here is that the Bible is right while you are wrong, and that when it says you will purchase damnation for disobeying the government, it means that government is an inherent good (when rightly ordered). Also, how can one disobey every worldly authority and then honestly claim that they'd "obey God and only God".
Further, it is patently obvious that permissiveness and "freedom to do whatever I want" doesn't lead to moral societies. Having the freedom to shoot up heroin on the streets while taking a shit has destroyed democrat-run cities, despite the fact that neither of those things "enslave, harm, steal from, or tyrannize those you love". In short, I've never seen an example of a morally permissive society that was successful long term.
Regulations are not sinful. It is not a sin for the government to require a license to fish, for example, and it is also not a sin to get such a license. Therefore, it is a sin to not obey such a law. The same goes for harmful business regulations. It's not great, and the laws should be changed, but until such a time they should be obeyed since it's not a sin to follow such regulations (generally).
Ultimately, the government compelling doctors to inject poison into people is one thing. The government doing shit we don't like is another. Whether we like it or not, and I'm sure this won't be popular around here, the Christian answer is to obey such laws, not disobey them "because freedom". Changing them is obviously preferable.
Edit to add: The Bible is perfect, unchanged, and scribes didn't mess it up. God made sure of this, since if He didn't the Bible would be useless.
Edit 2: I'd also point out that there are plenty of cases of seemingly conflicting verses in the Bible. They always can be reconciled, and in this case, the reconciliation of Romans 13 with verses like John 13:34-35 is that government is good and loving each other isn't actually the only thing to do. The point is just that without love, all the other laws are useless.
So, you are saying that "injecting poison" is something that YOU get to decide to disobey, but other things not? How does that work if the Bible is "perfect, unchanged, and scribes didn't mess it up."
I disagree with your entire interpretation here. Government, as we have known it, is coercion, and coercion is a crime. That's no way to run a society, and because it ATTRACTS and EMPOWERS psychopaths and sociopaths, governments have always been criminal enterprises and typically mass-murderers. Jesus was murdered by Roman government soldiers, as were many (millions?) of people in Rome and Roman territories who did not deserve such punishment.
If the US government, or your local city council for that matter, ordered you to murder children, would you?
Do you actually believe that God would WANT YOU TO just because "He" told you to obey the government?
God gave us free will and a conscience. Not using them to obey Jesus commandment that we "Love one another" is a sin.