My arguments referenced actual scripture. If you have some counter-point to debunk my points, I'd expect it to come from the only material we both agree is legitimate, the 66 canonical books of the Bible.
We can agree that scripture is a standard of truth but Sola Scriptura is not the only truth. no biblical passage teaches that Scripture is the formal authority or rule of faith in isolation from the Church and Tradition. The Word of God comes through oral teaching as well as scripture. It's referenced in scripture - "“For twenty-three years . . . the word of the Lord has come to me and I have spoken to you again and again . . . ‘But you did not listen to me,’ declares the Lord. . . . Therefore the Lord Almighty says this: ‘Because you have not listened to my words. . . .’” Jer. 25:3, 7-8
“When you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God” (1 Thess. 2:13).
“Keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us” (2 Thess. 3:6).
I'm nor trying to get into a religious argument but simply point to the fact that as brothers in Christ there can be legitmate disagreements over the meaning of words, passages, etc. I'm familiar with many of the arguments but one compelling idea to me is the one of authority. When you dig deep into the early church fathers it's hard to ignore the legitimacy of Catholicism. This is why many top Protestant theologians have converted. People like Scott Hahn, Dr. Taylor Marshall, Dr. A. David Anders, and many others. And I'm sure that they, as well as many other Catholics don't feel Francis is legitimately "Pope" regardless of him occupying the head of the church anymore than most of us don't believe Biden is legitimately the president.
Finally, the fact that Francis excommunicated Vigaro doesn't make the Archbisop Protestant. Vigaro believes traditional Church doctrine fully and is calling out Francis for diluting and subverting it and the teachings of Christ.
no biblical passage teaches that Scripture is the formal authority or rule of faith in isolation from the Church and Tradition
No biblical passage teaches that Church tradition is to be valued. But the bible does say that
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness
But it doesn't say that Church tradition is profitable. In fact, Jesus doesn't speak favorably of tradition, such as Mark 7:8-9
For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
and
Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
There are literally dozens of examples of Jesus dissing tradition, yet not a single time is tradition mentioned favorably in the Bible.
Aside from
Keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us
The key there is "that you received from us". That came from Paul. All of Paul's "traditions" are canonical scripture.
Catholic traditions mean nothing to me because many are contradictory of the Bible. Purgatory, praying to saints and Mary instead of God, indulgences, etc.
Just to highlight the idiocy of it, you have the 50 hail Marys that are taught that Catholics should include in their prayers. There are about 1.4 billion Catholics in the world. If every Catholic were to pray 50 hail Marys only once each day, that's 7000000000 prayers each day that Mary would be expected to heed. There are 86400 seconds in a day.
That means Mary would be tending to 4.86 million prayers per minute, 81,000 prayers per second. Catholics literally ascribe omnipotence to Mary, and nothing can be found in the 66 canonical books to suggest anyone but God could do that.
It’s obvious to me that you are passionate about your faith and that is good so I won’t continue this thread other than mention something my Dad once told me. He said the smartest people in the world are those who know what they don’t know. I often reflect on that statement because I see the opposite so often.
A good example that I’m often confronted with is when I see a doctor who I’ve gone to for years and see that they still think the Covid vaccine is beneficial. They haven’t read about any bad side effects in the top medical journal they scour every month. They are absolutely sure it’s safe and effective and I’m crazy for not getting it.
This physician never heard of Drs Peter McCullough, Pierre Kory, Paul Marik, Simone Gold, and many others. He has no clue about VAERS data or all the findings from studies all over the world showing it to be the most dangerous “vaccine” ever rolled out. When I mention something to the contrary he rolls his eyes and says conspiracy theory.
And so it goes.
This might bring some clarity regarding the successors of Peter.
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/peter-and-his-successors
My arguments referenced actual scripture. If you have some counter-point to debunk my points, I'd expect it to come from the only material we both agree is legitimate, the 66 canonical books of the Bible.
We can agree that scripture is a standard of truth but Sola Scriptura is not the only truth. no biblical passage teaches that Scripture is the formal authority or rule of faith in isolation from the Church and Tradition. The Word of God comes through oral teaching as well as scripture. It's referenced in scripture - "“For twenty-three years . . . the word of the Lord has come to me and I have spoken to you again and again . . . ‘But you did not listen to me,’ declares the Lord. . . . Therefore the Lord Almighty says this: ‘Because you have not listened to my words. . . .’” Jer. 25:3, 7-8
“When you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God” (1 Thess. 2:13).
“Keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us” (2 Thess. 3:6).
I'm nor trying to get into a religious argument but simply point to the fact that as brothers in Christ there can be legitmate disagreements over the meaning of words, passages, etc. I'm familiar with many of the arguments but one compelling idea to me is the one of authority. When you dig deep into the early church fathers it's hard to ignore the legitimacy of Catholicism. This is why many top Protestant theologians have converted. People like Scott Hahn, Dr. Taylor Marshall, Dr. A. David Anders, and many others. And I'm sure that they, as well as many other Catholics don't feel Francis is legitimately "Pope" regardless of him occupying the head of the church anymore than most of us don't believe Biden is legitimately the president.
Finally, the fact that Francis excommunicated Vigaro doesn't make the Archbisop Protestant. Vigaro believes traditional Church doctrine fully and is calling out Francis for diluting and subverting it and the teachings of Christ.
No biblical passage teaches that Church tradition is to be valued. But the bible does say that
But it doesn't say that Church tradition is profitable. In fact, Jesus doesn't speak favorably of tradition, such as Mark 7:8-9
and
There are literally dozens of examples of Jesus dissing tradition, yet not a single time is tradition mentioned favorably in the Bible.
Aside from
The key there is "that you received from us". That came from Paul. All of Paul's "traditions" are canonical scripture.
Catholic traditions mean nothing to me because many are contradictory of the Bible. Purgatory, praying to saints and Mary instead of God, indulgences, etc.
Just to highlight the idiocy of it, you have the 50 hail Marys that are taught that Catholics should include in their prayers. There are about 1.4 billion Catholics in the world. If every Catholic were to pray 50 hail Marys only once each day, that's 7000000000 prayers each day that Mary would be expected to heed. There are 86400 seconds in a day.
That means Mary would be tending to 4.86 million prayers per minute, 81,000 prayers per second. Catholics literally ascribe omnipotence to Mary, and nothing can be found in the 66 canonical books to suggest anyone but God could do that.
It’s obvious to me that you are passionate about your faith and that is good so I won’t continue this thread other than mention something my Dad once told me. He said the smartest people in the world are those who know what they don’t know. I often reflect on that statement because I see the opposite so often.
A good example that I’m often confronted with is when I see a doctor who I’ve gone to for years and see that they still think the Covid vaccine is beneficial. They haven’t read about any bad side effects in the top medical journal they scour every month. They are absolutely sure it’s safe and effective and I’m crazy for not getting it.
This physician never heard of Drs Peter McCullough, Pierre Kory, Paul Marik, Simone Gold, and many others. He has no clue about VAERS data or all the findings from studies all over the world showing it to be the most dangerous “vaccine” ever rolled out. When I mention something to the contrary he rolls his eyes and says conspiracy theory. And so it goes.
Peace be with you, friend.