Let me start with saying why I am asking this here. Recently Trump said we need to bring God back to this nation. So my mind instantly starts thinking...HOW?
How should the church be handling the corruption that is coming to light?
It seems many churches are in this weird point where "Politics" is the devil and anything even remotely attached to it ..should be left out of the church. Personally I worry this could cause problems and not allow the church to know truth and the work Jesus is doing at this time.
On the flip side I understand politics is rough. However revival is taking place within MAGA. How can we talk more about this?
My thoughts are kinda all over the place today. Hope this makes sense. I am working on putting together clearer thoughts. So thanks for sharing yours.
The biggest LIE taught to many generations was, "Never talk about Politics or Religion". I truly believe that was our downfall.
The "Church" IMO has always been corrupt (Vatican). The minute Churches were given tax-exempt status they became attached to the corrupt Government; strings. Get rid of the IRS and then maybe Churches will be free to do God's true work.
Below are the strings attached. https://birkenlaw.com/blog/6-ways-lose-501c3-irs-tax-exempt-status/
Bingo.
Religion = What we think about GOD and humanity. Politics = What we think about how people treat each other; how a ruler or an organized group under authority enacts justice and righteousness.
What else in life possibly matters? What you wear, or eat and drink, your daily entertainment and vacations? Good grief!!! Those pass away!
Exactly. "Small talk", as I call it, is boring!
I thought of how to respond to this but nothing is coming out right lol. Badlands put out a substack today that wrestles with this question beautifully. I would encourage everyone to check it out.
https://open.substack.com/pub/badlands/p/the-white-pill-emporium-part-4?r=r7rmg&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
I don’t think the church should be a platform for politics. The church’s primary mission should always be to nurture the spirit, to bring people closer to God, and to help them live holy, loving lives that reflect His teachings.
Politics is often divisive, and while it’s not wrong to have discussions around politics, the focus should be on the transformation of the heart and spirit, not just outward actions or alignments. I think politics can be discussed decently once people have had transformation and not before, as they can fall into a divisive worldly/non-spirit mindset that doesn't let them move forward.
That said, to truly bring God back into this nation, we need leaders in the church who are spiritually grounded, blameless, humble, and strong in their faith. Leaders who are called to shepherd others should be known for their integrity and holiness, not for their ambition or desire for fame or wealth.
In fact, these leaders must live a life of integrity and holiness that isn’t just for show, but comes from a deep, genuine desire to live as Christ lived. These leaders shouldn’t be entangled in vices like drunkenness, drugs, or any form of abuse. It’s not enough for them to simply appear holy; they must be holy in their private lives, not seeking to elevate themselves, but instead seeking to serve and uplift others. Additionally the higher up leaders MUST NOT look the other way on those under them who do wrong consistently, they must be sent out once they show they cannot live with integrity.
We need to prioritize spiritually proven leaders in positions of authority - humble people who can discern the truth, who know the word of God, and who live it out daily. The church should be a beacon of integrity, truth, and spiritual renewal.
I believe this is why people have fallen away from the church.. because leaders have not been as strong as they need to be. We have had leaders sacrificing the word of God to please the world, and we end up with confused people who think that sins God clearly said are wrong are fine to do continually, making their own 'word' to justify sin and live by the world. This is spiritual backsliding and leads nowhere good.
If we’re going to bring God back to this nation, it starts with purging the corruption and spiritual blindness in church leadership, and making sure that those who lead are spiritually sound and led by the Holy Spirit. Only then can we begin to see real change.
I totally disagree. We are in this problem because the mainstream church (the deep church) has been intentionally cultivating a culture of reality ignoring for far too long. They encourage their members to put their heads in the sand like Ostriches on any topic that will affect the future of humanity. They are quick to be seeker sensitive and always a 501c3 vs a 508 to make sure they get maximum money and maximum state control. They side with big daddy state when the going gets tough. Look at what happened during the fake pandemic. Look at how many churches were guilt tripping people into getting the death Jab. Franklin Graham was literally telling people that Jesus would want them to get the death jab. How many church going christian women are sterile now because of being guilt tripped at church during the vax push? The real question is this: When will we see the deep church charged with crimes against humanity? Politics isn't spiritual until you can't have children because you ignored it.
Totally agree! And the tax status is the key.
I was saying we need to get back to being spiritual centered.. which would be not bound by the government under statutes. Free of any constraints, and to focus on the spirit.
I am not for churches being like 'take the jab' it shouldn't have been an issue. There should have been no leaders saying that, or letting the worldly TV let parishioners attack others on that in church. It should have been a lesson about being humble like Christ.
I'm not sure what you totally disagree with to be honest. But i think church should be for spiritual strength building.
I don't dissagree with most of the specific points you've said . I disagree with the premise. The church only becomes the "opiate of the masses" that they accuse us of being if we disconnect from reality. Anyone can virtue signal and then stab you in the back. The impotent church and deep church is how the rinos took control and why they are actually the real reason we are in this mess. You can only do "us vs them" if you control both sides. You can only control the masses with ideology and religion, not truth.
I think we need to get away from the idea of controlling others to some degree. I don't really want to control anyone if they are law abiding citizens. But if they aren't then yes, i want to control them to get them away from hurting or damaging law abiding citizens, and hopefully reforming them to be law abiding themselves. I sense there's more here to discuss.
Yes, there is. Theology and law are some of the most intellectually challenging topics that exist and also the most important. If you want an example of the point I was explaining: just take a look at most of the Latin American banana republics. Their people are much more religious than north Americans but their governments and officials are much more corrupt.
I know what you are talking about and i'm not a fan of that type of thing, and I think that's wrong that their governments are so corrupt, it does a discredit to the faith there.. making it seem generally more outward than spiritual. That's not to diss anyone there who lives by faith and commits to the spirit.
I do know it can be intellectually challenging to discuss these things, but i've been practicing and training for a long time, so it comes with ease for me now. I can make a claim to be among (if not the) most theologically adept people on Earth right now (no brag & no joke). But is only out of need for it and anyone can achieve this with the same dedicated training.
Ok, glad we have similar interests and backrounds... but it begs the question: faith in what exactly? Faith in the false idol of the religiously pandered virtue signaling rituals prescribed by a pious pedophile rapist in priests' clothing? Faith in the trite guilt manipulation cleansing mantra preformed before an irreverently nailed mockery of the Son of God that they call a crucifix? Because guess what, the majority of those people (in those aforementioned countries) subscribe to that infernal cult know as the Roman Catholic Church. but wait, the mass majority of the mainstream protestant alternatives aren't far behind them in their quest to conveniently ignore the actual teachings and commands of the Son of God. They never cease majoring on the minors. We both know why. We both know the mainstream church (deep church), just like the government, is incredibly infested with satanists. All the evidence is obvious and has been around for a thousand years. Christians haven't done anything about it until now because it's easier to do what they are told to do (by the church) and focus on the minors. The fearless ones (the ones who got thrown to the lions and burned at the stake didn't have as many kids it seems).
Amen.
I think we in our culture have lost the ability to seperate ideas from identity. It is possible to discuss ideas and opinions while loving the people who hold them and not devaluing or exalting the holder of them. Many times in church type settings I've had good conversations discussing political ideas and have been able to encourage honorable conduct before God in myself and the others in the conversation. Love the people and value their thoughts independently.
Well said. The church seems to think that just avoiding the conversation will bring about the things you said. I think the church needs to be aware of the things of the world so they can bring the church together in Prayer. First and foremost
I agree the church shouldn't be a platform for politics. I also agree with much of what you are saying. Let me tell as story you might already know.
Back in the late 60s there was a movement called the Jesus people(Jesus revolution is a great movie on it) any how hippies were seeing the corruption of government, doing drugs and partying. Yet somehow many were having spiritual revivals. The church had a split. Some were like...what would that teach our church members if we attached to drugs, what about them being dirty and making our church dirty, how do we control things.
Some were wanting to let Jesus work and were like well this is how Jesus appears to be working. Let's watch it play out.
And revival took place.
I tell that story because I believe MAGA is the hippie of today. If we constantly live in fear to talk about things...how can we harvest the testimony of the work Jesus is doing. Millions of people are having revival directly from playing a part in this movement.
I hope I'm doing an ok job explaining this. My heart just wants to see this movement mold with the Church. All of this is bigger than politics, trump and stuff like that. Jesus is calling out and I just want this story to be told. Yet there are complexities within the church that need to be talked through. I'm just here to push the conversation a little. It's in Jesus hands
We shouldn't be afraid, God calls us to be brave. Lets talk about the complexities. That's how we solve problems.
My parents lived through the 60ies Jesus movement. I know exactly what you're talking about, almost too well. I've seen most of the different fallacies that the different denominations end up reflecting. I accepted Yeshua(Jesus) at the age of 5 and grew up studying the bible in great detail. I studied theology in school and have spent a LOT of time in church with most of the popular denominations. I can tell you one thing for sure: the problem with the modern church is that they don't address state/government and church corruption. They encourage you not to focus on it, which is why they have a naughty list word for it. They call it "worldly" (you know, the place we all live in and have children in) Yeshua(Jesus) spoke against government and church corruption almost as much as anything else. If you don't believe me then read the 4 gospels again. Don't forget that the only time he got violent is when bankers and government officials were involved. Think about that for a a little bit. Really think about it.
Proverbs 29:2! When the godly are in authority, the people rejoice. But when the wicked are in power, they groan.
Why do you think we are in the trouble we are ! The DEVIL has lied to the people of God ! Not get involved in politics !!! Seriously . Do you know how much better our country would have been if the church stood up as years past and not allowed the demons to take our Christian beginnings thst our forfsthrrs started ! the church has sat back watching as everything that our forefathers fought for be destroyed ! So the church should shut up and let the devil run rampant as he has all over this country ! People of God have been lied to . The Ecclesia Is the church , our forefathers would meet, the community would meet and they would govern their towns and states . Our constitution was written after grest prayer ! They met they prayed they made laws that we now fight to keep . Stop being lied to , if the church would rise up , as so many , thank God are doing and shake the shackles off their holier then thou eyes and demand that the darkness be removed from our schools and from the halls of congress as many are doing we would go back to when prayer and the Bible was in our schools . If the church isn’t involved in politics my God it leaves only the devils kids . That’s what happened . Thank God churches are rising up and not allowing people to lie to them . The separation of church and state was to keep goverment away from church not the other way around and it wasn’t a law look it up as how it was started . My God thank God Christian’s are getting into office learning the truth ! We thank God for people like Pete and other politicians who profess their faith ,, you think he believes the church should not be involved in politics ! Thank God Christian’s are riising up . We now have the lgbt crap waving in churches ,, when will it stop , when the Christian’s rise up and take this Christian roots in goverment back , a movement has started long ago in many churches across this country truth is being preached and people are waking up . Yes Christian’s should be involved in politics and the church should rejoice through the halls of congress just like years passed when they rode on horses to DC with their bibles ,, check your history and listen to wise ministers of the gospel ! Christian’s need to understand that the Godly need to rise up and understand that if the church fails they will take over . If you just look up and read a bit on the internet it’s a really small book and easy to read but u don’t need to buy ,,,,LETTER TO THE AMERICAN CHURCH by Eric Metaxes he explains what happened in other country’s and here long ago when the church went silent about politics , c does everyone know who Dietriec Bonhoeffer is ????? Please look him up , he’ll explain what happened when the church in his county did what we did years ago ,,of course he’s gone but I pray his message rises loudly ,,,,, don’t allow the church to shut up about politics . Know your history and the mistakes we made !!!! We are not going back where Christian’s are silenced ,, let the church explode with those who know the truth . God will be taught in politics and politics will obey Gods word !
^this^
Thank you Pandamoon ! I get so stirred up about this , my God if people would think about what they are saying and believing ! I pray more churches preach the truth and raise up people in their churches to get into politics and start infiltrating the halls of congress and every other branch of goverment . Karolyn our press secretary keeps saying “ by the Grace God” with Gods help “ thank God etc ! Do people think that she believes the church should be silent ? Hell no ! I’m so grateful I’m in a church who has been raising up people to run , we have many of our people from church who have won elections. My pastor preaches the truth of the word and teaches the truth about what will happen if the church stays silent . Silent No more ! Whst a friggin lie of the devil . People don’t even know where separation of church and state came from and who said it in a letter ! Geeze ! Anyway prsise God for churches who understand if people in the church don’t run for office all we have are the ungodly and many have they taken over as the Christian’s sat in their pews believing a lie !
Left my church because politics and haven't replaced it because of same. Just teach the gospel and let the congregation apply it to their lives and politics.
Politics is BS. If they tell the truth about government corruption just like Jesus and John the Baptist did did then you know its a good church.
Get the identity Politics out of the Churches ASAP. A Church near me has a Pride flag in full display near a Kindergarten. The Deep State has corrupted the Church and it needs to purge itself from these Evil influencers.
I would say it’s 3 fold:
Bring the Bible back into schools. Helps to create a common baseline. Source of a great deal of classic literature. The premier source of wisdom.
Go to church more often.
Several of the churches have been infiltrated. They need to be cleaned.
Would you be opposed to a Religious Studies class, instead of just the Bible?
I generally think that is for college because you need a baseline. I had it as part of an English class.
Something I think is missing that children used to watch was Aesop’s fables and other wisdom cartoons.
Thats what I meant, a baseline class that introduces children (maybe Middle School) to all myths and religions. Then they could choose which ones they're more interested in to study further.
Yes, I agree, maybe an updated version of Aesop's Fables.
The evidence shows that all of the major ones have been infiltrated.
mixing the two looks like a cult: God's favorite people who are always right and never wrong. Being small people is how we connect to god, history, the future.