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34
Fewer than 1% of observant Jews reject the Talmud (twitter.com)
posted 176 days ago by NeilS 176 days ago by NeilS +34 / -0
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– SwampRangers 2 points 176 days ago +2 / -0

So, please pray for the Karaite Jews that they will soon believe the Torah's testimony of Jesus Christ and join us in God's Covenant with His chosen people.

J. D. Hall says accurately that we should pray for the belief of Karaites (and for the strengthening of the belief of Messianics) as they face unique oppressions. So the overall post is well-intentioned, but a distinction needs to be made about the statement quoted by OP: "Fewer than 1% of observant Jews reject the Talmud, and they're called the Karaites."

I tell people that as a rough number 90% of Jews are secular and only 10% religious (the actual number that have cultural Jewish practices without significant religious content is higher); today's AI suggests there are only 2 million "observant Jews" out of about 15 million. I then say that 90% of the religious Jews don't care about the Talmud in detail and leave that to the remainder (even as they agree with the Talmudic-derived culture tacitly). I then say that 90% of those who care about the Talmud don't study it consistently; AI says only tens of thousands participate in the Daf Yomi program to read the Talmud daily. So only 0.1% of Jews are daily Talmud advocates, although a large chunk of the rest of Jews support the theory that Judaism should come from the Talmud as based on the Torah.

Now, current Karaite population is about 40,000-50,000, so it may be higher than the actual enrolled Daf Yomi population. So on a rough day we might hold that Karaites are only 1% of "observant Jews" (that really ambiguous term). But this does not represent that 99% of Jews do not reject the Talmud. Reconstruction Jews reject Talmud and number about 200,000. Reform Jews reject Talmud and number 2 million. And secular Jews reject Talmud and can hardly be counted, but are many millions, as this website is constantly portraying the exploits of secular Jews. These all believe in a Jewish people and in a generic Torah principle but not in any binding Talmudic system.

So we simply can't say fewer than 1% of observant Jews reject the Talmud when we actually mean 1%-2% are just Karaites, because there are many views on Talmud in Judaism.

Now, the actual OP article linked is https://insighttoincite.substack.com/p/talmudic-tyranny-understanding-israels and it begins rightly by attacking the modern resurgence of Judaizing, i.e. Jewish-style legalism. It participates in a little exaggeration of the type I've opposed, but it's not horrendous:

Insight to Incite has exposed a lot about the Talmud lately, leaving Christians gobsmacked by its heresies. People are growing increasingly familiar with the Talmud’s grotesque dual justice where we “goyim” gentiles endure harsher lashes than Jews for the same crimes, teachings that erode the Imago Dei, demoting non-Jews to subhuman status, lurid slanders portraying Christ boiling eternally in excrement and birthed from a harlot, ethics that spit on Torah’s purity and Christianity’s grace, and even decrees that gentiles like us, daring to scrutinize its pages, merit execution.

To be very brief, most nations have harsher penalties for noncitizens than for citizens for the same crimes due to the rights the nation guarantees for citizens; comparing humans to animals doesn't erode the Imago Dei because Jesus and the prophets did it; the one passage about boiling in excrement (not eternally, yet another misquote) is a joke about a generic Yeshu, not a slander; the (primary or only) passage about birth from a harlot is about Yeshu ben Pappos, fl. 130s AD; the ethics are comparable to patristic casuistry; and the opinion of Rabbi Yohanan about Gentile Torah study being capital was overruled by Rabbi Meir and the majority.

Talmud brazenly crowns itself divinely inspired, wielding ultimate authority over the Bible, and eclipsing the Word of God in interpretive supremacy.

No evidence found: It demands all rulings be founded in Torah, and when it says to pay closer attention to its words than to Torah it refers only to the difference between daily regulated practice and general Torah principles (as if a legislator said pay closer attention to the promulgated regulations than to the statutory laws; regulations are assumed not to contradict laws).

Once they’re forced to admit that (1) the Talmud is indeed a counterfeit holy book with jaw-dropping contradictions to Scripture, and (2) that it claims divine origin and held as the highest authority, it’s in Neo-Judaism’s self-interest to claim that “not all Jews follow the Ta[l]mud.”

Since I'm not neo-Judaism or neo-Judaizing, I feel free to answer. The majority rulings of Talmud do not contain jaw-dropping contradictions to the Old Testament (although they are often ignorant of the New Testament) and they do not claim divine origin (different from any other works of man) or highest authority. But as I just pointed out, yeah, probably a majority of Jews do not follow the Talmud, even as it's also possibly true a majority of Jews feel positive about the Talmud (pollster questions are easy to twist so as to create contradictions). Oh look, OP agrees:

Most Jews end up not really following anything all, whether the Bible or the Talmud.

Most Jews end up not really following anything all, whether the Bible or the Talmud.

Their claim that not all Jews follow the Talmud is technically true .... There’s another reason it’s true that not all Jews follow the Talmud, and that’s because of a tiny little faction that officially rejects it, known as the Karaites.

Well, it looks like the argument even against the neo-Judaizers is lost then, and the plight of the Karaites is being played up even though it has nothing to do with the fact that many Jews, probably the majority, are irreligious about the Talmud at large. If OP meant Reform Judaism is bad because it teaches irreligion, right in one's own eyes, that would be fine; but Talmudic Judaism constantly teaches one very narrow path of obedience, legalism instead of libertinism. So to accuse the same people of making two contrary errors is rather naive. Horseshoe theory might explain why the two classes of people coexist, but it does not make one system into the other. Reform and Talmudic Judaism are two broad wings of Rabbinical Judaism, with Karaite Judaism being another component, and Messianic Judaism being opposed to modern Rabbinical Judaism.

Pharisees, those self-righteous architects of legalistic labyrinths who clashed with Jesus and endlessly harassed Him.

Hillel, Nicodemus, Joseph, the scribe not far from the kingdom, Gamaliel, and Paul were all Pharisees who were positive about Jesus (evidence is that Hillel met Jesus when Jesus was 12, because Jesus cites Hillel later). There were many branches of Pharisaism, two of which were noted for serving God purely out of Fear of God, or Love of God, so we cannot characterize Pharisees as being one-sided because the Bible doesn't.

[Pharisees'] legacy lording over 99% of what today we call “Judaism.”

Nope, they are still "a fractured mosaic of sects, each vying for spiritual supremacy under Roman bootheels" today.

[Karaites] are the “Sola Talmuda” of modern Judaism, with Anan in the role of Luther.

Sounds like Anan ben-David would be interesting to learn more about, I don't recall much about him. All the same, he clearly means "Sola Torah" because otherwise he betrays his argument; with that change it's a good illustration.

Now, the overall point of discrimination against Karaites is valid, and (like Messianics) they get worse treatment for supporting some of Talmudic Judaism but not other of it. But ultimately that comes up because the Talmudists recognize that certain rights are accorded by rabbinic authority and so they only flow to those who recognize that authority. It's greatly casuistic, but is completely parallel (as Hall notes) with how Catholics treat Protestants, and doesn't comment on the Talmud itself any more than Catholic abuses comment poorly on the Ecumenical Councils.

TLDR: It appears that Hall, new to the game after discovering the Kirk connection, is ramping himself up to speed while also speaking rashly to establish his authority. That means takeaways are rather varied. (1) Yes, pray for the Karaites to recognize Jesus the Messiah prophesied by the Tanakh. (2) No, neither Judaism nor Pharisaism is as fixated on Talmud as you think. (3) Also, pray for all the other Jews to recognize Jesus the Messiah prophesied by the Tanakh, because even upholding the Talmud doesn't exclude them from seeing Jesus (contrary to people's views about the Talmud without reading it in context). (4) Yes, oppose (neo) Judaizing because it is legalism, not because it's bad to derive local regulations from the Torah (Christians do that too). (5) Also, in praying for all nations (including Jews) to come to Jesus, recognize that the more one knows about Jewish and Talmudic history the more one can minister to them effectively by sharing the good news in their own cultural idiom, a task that has been more complicated than doing so with any other cultural idiom, as Paul prophesied in Romans 11.

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