Read the whole book of revelations on that one bud, it is referring to the beast and the false prophet(antichrist) being thrown into the lake of fire. That is the “they”. Not once did you address anything I showed you as evidence, yet you sit and accuse me of having scales over my eyes…
I NEVER said any of that, you interpreted it that way because you are still trying to fit my belief of no hell into your belief of hell.
People die, if they are believers they are given eternal life; if they aren’t, they perish. This is the eternal punishment, ceasing to exist. This aligns with all the scriptures I provided you. If you can provide me with scriptures that say otherwise, please do so. I’d be happy to be proven wrong, because that means I would be growing in my faith (certainly been wrong before), but it will be done divinely through scripture, not because you said so (no offense).
Where are you getting this second death? Not something I said. And I literally just posted multiple verses that back up my claim and say belief is the way to eternal life. If you consider spending hours upon hours reading the original Greek/Hebrew and comparing scriptures with other scriptures and praying for discernment from God to be willful ignorance, then yeah, I guess I am being willfully ignorant. I didn’t just willy nilly come up with this belief when I read the OP, it is something I have been studying off and on since 2011. Willfully ignorant… kek
Those who are not righteous have everlasting punishment. The righteous have eternal life.
If you don’t have eternal life, how can you have everlasting punishment?
Here are some more scriptures:
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
1 Peter 1:23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God
2 Thessalonians 2:10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved
“The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.” 1 Corinthians 15:56-57 NIV
“You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.” Romans 8:9-11 NIV
“Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.” Galatians 6:8 NIV
I can find more, but the trend is Jesus = eternal life; no Jesus = perish, death, destruction.
Here’s another one:
“In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.” Jude 1:7 NIV
The eternal punishment of Matthew’s scripture is the same as Sodom and Gomora, one of death and destruction, not life.
I’m a believer in Christ so I’m good even if I’m wrong on this. We don’t have to know and have all of the intricacies of the Bible figured out to receive salvation, thank God! I’m just arguing against the idea of enduring eternal punishment/suffering in hell and using the scriptures to reconcile my belief. When multiple scriptures can be reconciled together and all point to the same thing, then you are most likely interpreting it correctly, right? That’s all I’ve done here. There are many instances of Jesus and others saying only belief equals eternal life. And they are also literal sayings when he was speaking directly and not in parable form. The few that people use to promote the idea of hell are parables and this more symbolic or metaphoric rather than literal.
To expand on my beliefs: Hell = without God So in context of this debate, it does not matter whether hell is a literal volcano that you will be thrown in, or a metaphorical place of pain & suffering or a cessation of existence, or a tiny room with no windows, or a mansion with all the desires one could ask for, it will still be hell because you are without God.
In Mark, Jesus is talking about Gehenna, one of the words translated into hell. The commentary below describes it perfectly for me. Another thing of importance is that “quenched” here means “extinguish”, not “satiated”. In other words, the punishment of the unbeliever will always exist, not that the unbeliever will always be punished.
The scriptures in Matthew is in reference to the end of days(see also Matthew 13:48-50), not a person dying ona typical Tuesday and going to hell so it isn’t a good comparison. Note how Jesus doesn’t call it “hell”. Why wouldn’t he just say they are thrown into hell, they didn’t know what hell was? It wasn’t common knowledge then? In Matthew, Jesus is speaking in parable, not meant to be taken literally but figuratively. And when there isn’t other scriptures to compare it with, it requires big inferences to interpret. But the idea of eternal pain and suffering does not reconcile with the other things Jesus said about eternal life.
I need to do a deeper dive on revelations
Trying to find the site I used now but that link you posted shows it is the same word. Regardless of the semantics here of everlasting vs eternal, it doesn’t align with the following scriptures that Jesus spoke about eternal life and perishing.
Luke 13:3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
Hell is eternal in punishment on sinners. Only in Christ can it be avoided and satisfied.
I believe this as well. But the punishment is to perish/experience death(cease to exist), not be burned in a fire forever. See below, three red letter examples right out of the mouth of Jesus.
Luke 13:3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
Luke 13:3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
“hell” is never mentioned in the original Greek or Hebrew text. It is sheol, Hades, Gehenna, and Tartarus that are all translated into the word hell.
I just pointed you to multiple verses that say without salvation you perish/experience death (cease to exist). That is the punishment and you could call it everlasting or eternal because, well, you cease to exist forever, but it isn’t an actual physical burning in a fire or psychological punishment that never ends.
Do you have any other verses you can share?
Btw iron sharpens iron. Thank you for engaging
Yes, eternal is beyond time. The word “ever” is a measurement of time, so everlasting is to the end of time.
Luke 13:3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
See the trend?
Everlasting is to the end of time. Eternity is beyond time.
Yes hell = sheol in the original translation. Equivalent of our modern day shale, or a layer of the earth. Like you said, the place where fire (lava core of earth) and punishment (life without God) exist. But remember they exist until the end of time, not beyond time. Meaning that as long as there are people the punishment and fire will exist, not that a person will endure the punishment and fire forever.
Kek. You don’t seem to have a problem debating with everyone else. Dispute what I said, I’d love to be proven wrong about hell being a scare tactic, please also use translations as close as possible to the original text.
Define perish. Look at the Greek and Hebrew sheol was translated to hell around the 3rd century of my memory serves me correctly.
Matthew 25:46 (KJV 1900): 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Dude, how about some book and chapter references? It’s gonna take me a minute to address this