So short thing before hand, I am Coptic Orthodox we have priests (who are married) and we see them for lots of things Confession, advice, help, all sorts of problems we also attend something called Divine Liturgy which is about 3 hours long (Mantis and then the service itself). So I went to see him today and one of the things I asked him is if I had to wear a mask at Liturgy (we are in orange county florida and there is still a mask mandate for us) some how this conversation turned into a discussion about the vaccine. And even he isn't going to be taking it he said it has nothing to do with religious reasons just he hasn't seen good things from it. Meaning lots of side effects from people (bad ones).
I spoke to one of my friends who is also Coptic and he said at his own parish that a lot of people especially the elderly will wear a mask just to enter the church but eventually during the service they will take it off and put it to the side. I think this really goes to show that a lot of people are completely fed up with the masks, my friend said the only people who believe in the mask is the government.
As for at my parish unfortunately I still have to wear it because Abouna (this is what we call our priests) said he can't make special exceptions because then everyone will want to take it off. I tried to tell him how a big part of the Liturgy in the incense it kind of mentally draws you in and how difficult it is to smell it, to which he said he could smell it just fine I said that is because he is the one censing the Church!
We believe in obeying as it doesn't go against God, this is what he told me. I can't really disobey his choice there at the Church.
Yeah, we had a bit of a conversation over it and he understands my displeasure and my thoughts on it, but still at the end he says it's not something that would disobey any of God's commandments so we should obey and follow it. This is only in regards to masks, and he believes once enough people have been vaccinated the local government will lift the mask mandate. He doesn't think you should take the vaccine if you don't want it also.
Yeah that's the thing, he is in a very difficult position but one thing about Copts is they have endured so much persecution by the Muslims that this is probably a welcomed sort of persecution, usually they are being killed and their churches are being burned to the ground. I have even seen Muslims throwing stones from the rooftops in Egypt at them!
Another thing is, I do believe he is following what our bishop has said to do, which our bishop is following what our Pope has said to do (the irony of that is all decisions by the Pope come from the Holy Synod which is just all the bishops together) I still think a lot of this comes down to their fear of being deported from the country and back to Egypt.
As an aside to your story, I know a Catholic Priest (the only one I know personally), who is a based Q guy. He understands there is a Deep State and a Deep Church.
2 corinthian 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as [a]by the Spirit of the Lord.
there you have it.
Something about Orthodox we do not self interpret the scripture like that, incase this wasn't you meming, we look towards the fathers for what they have had to say on it least we fall into heresy. St. John Chrysostom talks about this verse and he says that "For he said before, You are the Epistle of Christ; and here, But we all with open face. Yet they came like Moses, brining a law. But like as we, he says, needed no veil, so neither ye who received it..." so this verse would be speaking about the law of Moses.
Matthew 23:9
Do you not call your dad your father? If you do or anything related to father then in your own view you are going against what God said. "No one should be called teacher or father except God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ. He alone is the Father, because all things are from him. He alone is the teacher, because through him are made all things and through him all things are reconciled to God. But one might ask, “Is it against this precept when the apostle calls himself the teacher of the Gentiles? Or when, as in colloquial speech widely found in the monasteries of Egypt and Palestine, they call each other Father?” Remember this distinction. It is one thing to be a father or a teacher by nature, another to be so by generosity. For when we call a man father and reserve the honor of his age, we may thereby be failing to honor the Author of our own lives. One is rightly called a teacher only from his association with the true Teacher. I repeat: The fact that we have one God and one Son of God through nature does not prevent others from being understood as sons of God by adoption. Similarly this does not make the terms father and teacher useless or prevent others from being called father. ." St. Jerome
No I did not call my dad father.
But you just called him dad, dad means father.
No I do not believe dad and Father are the same. It's semantics at this point.
Language has been so distorted these days as to let the evil one creep in and pervert our relationship with God.
That is some hard core cope if I ever saw it. Dad and Father are the same thing, both are universally used to signify ones male human that contributed to their birth. I suppose at this point you would just call them birth giver female and birth giver male? As well Abraham is referred to as father in the bible, God tells him he will be the father of many nations. Exodus 20:12 tells us to honor our father and mother, why would God tell us that if we are no to refer to our birth giver male as father? And if this is about titles, then why later in the NT do they call Abraham our father, or Isaac our father? Even more so lots of times it is used as a title of address not just biological.
I will leave you with all of this, as I know not to get to deep into a conversation that isn't going to be heard when one has already made their position known, but I do pray you reflect on some of the things I have said.
Thanks for sharing the encouraging story! I personally am looking to return to services after close to 30 years away (lol) and one of the main things on my mind is masks at service. I will not be participating, and was just thinking this morning about how I'm going to go about finding a church not requiring the, or offering outdoor service (also in Florida).
As for your story... Time to tell the Abourna that the incense is clinging to your mask and giving you debilitating migraines, almost to the point of suicidal thoughts.
I bet God would get a chuckle out of it at least. ?
I think you might find some Protestant churches that are more willing to go against the mask mandate but with the Copts most of the priests are born in Egypt and then migrate here, so I think one of the reasons is they don't want to get their immigration revoked and then kicked back to Egypt so they are a little more cautious, another thing is Abouna doesn't see wearing a mask during service as going against God (they have been subjected to way worse persecution and still followed the government law).
I am not sure about what you mean on the incense part as I love the smell of it but with the mask I can't smell it at all which is a crime it feels.
Thanks for the info. I'm mostly letting my wife make this decision, as she has more experience with organized Church, and many good experiences with different congregations. Technically, she's Protestant, so we'll probably lean that way.
The incense thing was a joke. ? I know of people who get excruciating migraines from perfume. Thought you could say that if the smoke was clinging to your mask fibres, it was making you sick. Medical exemption joke. Doesn't sound like it'll work though.
God Bless!