Abortion is a huge can of worms. I try to view it from a science point of view. When you reach the point (which doctors could very easily define) were the baby has greater than a 50/50 chance of surviving being born premature then you are crossing a ton of lines just based on pure science. Meaning if the mother really wanted the baby out of her body period end of issue the baby would actually have a good chance of survival if you just prematurely delivered it. Yet they kill it in the womb and then vacuum it out? That is utterly insane. You are putting the mothers desire ahead of the fetuses life. Its not medically necessary. 99% of the time the mother is in no danger because of the baby. They just find it inconvenient. By that standard I should be about to execute someone who steals my parking space. It was inconvenient to me.
When you add in the fact that the people who are pushing women into getting abortions are profiting from it and the government who is regulating it is using the parts that result from the abortions. Plus the politicians are getting their cut. So what's next are we going to kill jobless people and give their organs to productive members of society? Its just insane. Its evil.
If some woman who is in the first trimester wants to get an abortion fine great that's on her. That's her moral choice etc. These body parts aren't coming from 6 week old fetuses. They have to allow the baby to grow a little to get those parts. Its all a scam to make money and the babies are the ones dying to make it all happen. The difference between this and things like trafficking child sex slaves seems almost non-existent to me.
But sense the government says its okay then its legal... and we are back to people worshiping the government... and if the government says its okay then its moral. See how that works. There is no moral framework of any kind. They can and will justify anything they feel like doing. There is no such thing as too far. Just look at China. Best anyone can tell they are harvesting organs from political prisoners.
Thus my comment. This isn't about god. You don't need god to be a moral person. You simply need a good moral framework. That can be based on a number of things or possibly even a combinations of things. These Marxist lunatics aren't getting that framework from logic or science or even borrowing it from religion. There are plenty of alternate ways to view a moral framework that for the most part works that has nothing to do with god. No these people are getting their morals from Marxist professors who have brainwashed them to believe anything the government bureaucracy approves of is moral.
One of my biggest complaints about various atheists movements is they tend to want to get rid of god but then don't bother to replace any of the social norms that religions generally fill in like having a sense of morality. Of course I now understand many of them do have a replacement in mind. They want people to be mindless a-moral drones that the government can program to do any task it deems is needed. You might know them as useful idiots.
Me? I'm a big fan of the golden rule... except I take it to another level. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. If I was a defenseless 6 months old fetus I wouldn't want someone to chop me up and sell me for parts. But see I also view it as instructive. Someone points a gun at me with the clear intent to shoot me... I assume they want me to shoot them. I do to them what they do to me. So clearly a person who chops up defenseless babies and sells them for parts wants me to chop them up and sell their organs... :) A firing squad will have to do though. The golden rule works both ways for me. Its a very simple way to view life but its served me well.
It's a combination of both. Let's not mence words. MANY religious people don't get their moral code from the Bible or what a priest says. A lot of it comes from social pressures and community norms. That's exactly why you have inner city gang bangers who murder people on Saturday and go to church on Sunday. They believe in god they just choose to ignore the parts that aren't convenient to their chosen way to make money.
EVERYONE chooses their own path. If you think otherwise you're a fool. I am a more moral person that 90% of the "Christians" I've met in my life. I don't steal. I don't do drugs. I help people when I can, etc etc. There are a few things the bible says I shouldn't do that I don't believe in because the truth is they hurt no one so I ignore those rules. IE the ban on premarital sex. I don't even believe in marriage. Why? Because its based entirely on social norms created by religion. Why should I hold myself to rules and norms created by a false god? That isn't a moral issue anyway. Its a religion issue.
But yes many things come from what the majority agrees on. IE not having sex with anyone under 18. Don't get me wrong I'm no pedo, but up until around 100 to 150 years ago it was the norm for woman the get married and have kids at 15 or 16. The idea we have to wait for some arbitrary age defined by puritanical minded Christians is just silly. Its has little to nothing to do with a moral code and everything to do with an arbitrary rule.
That said I want to be clear... people who seek out prepubescent children or people who abuse their authority, entrap or enslave weak defenseless young people, etc... those people should be dealt with harshly. However, should a man over 18 be lucky enough to meet some 16 year old that was actually mature enough and wanted a relationship with them the arbitrary rules we put in place make that crime. They literally criminalize love. Talk about immoral. Although recently many states have made Romeo and Juliet laws to fix exactly this problem. However, they put age caps on it which is yet again arbitrary. They act like a 30 year old can't actually fall in love with a 17 year old and vice versa. Like its is completely impossible.
People like Epstein should be crushed because they are just abusing young women. However, the way they leave no room for the possibility of a real bond is in itself criminal if you asked me. And no I'm not talking about those retards in NAMBLA who want to be with 10 year olds. Fuck those retards. Or the idiots trolling for 13-14 years olds on the internet.
I hold myself to the given laws of a particular state because that is the sane thing to do and I have some self control. Its one of my biggest points about Epstein. That idiot had hundreds of millions of dollars. He could have setup shop in any state. MANY states have an age of consent that is 17 or even 16.
All that idiot had to do is buy a mansion on the GA coast and he could round up, abuse, and pay all the 16+ year old girls he liked. It wouldn't have been illegal. It was never about that though. He could have just as easily made a point of being with 18 year olds in FL. No the whole point was he felt he was above the law. He felt like he could do anything he wanted to anyone he wanted and no one could stop him. Is what he did moral? I'd say no, mainly because of his intent which was to use and abuse them.
There is a reason they have whole classes devoted to morality etc. Truth is we could never discus it all here. There is one other truth though... most of those classes have been perverted by Marxists to the point were the class itself is immoral. They now teach people to be evil. That's the root of many of our problems today. We allow these lunatics to teach our children and just hope they don't corrupt them.
The idea that a proper moral center can ONLY come from god is so utterly ridiculous its laughable. Fact of the matter is for decades there were atheists that went all in on "secular humanism". It was peace at all costs. Which is actually why we are in the mess we are in. Tons of people in Europe went down that road. Some consider that to be a more moral path than Christianity.
Nothing has to lead to might over right. You've missed the whole point of morality if you believe that is the only other path to follow. Let's face facts Christians spent hundreds of years murdering innocent people in the name of god. They repressed science and are pretty much entirely responsible for the dark ages. Witch trails? Flat earth?
Things like the printing press and other inventions and scientific discoveries eventually moved us past that even with the powers that be trying to prevent it.
I think you are the one being dishonest with yourself. Lose the dogma.
Abortion is a huge can of worms. I try to view it from a science point of view. When you reach the point (which doctors could very easily define) were the baby has greater than a 50/50 chance of surviving being born premature then you are crossing a ton of lines just based on pure science. Meaning if the mother really wanted the baby out of her body period end of issue the baby would actually have a good chance of survival if you just prematurely delivered it. Yet they kill it in the womb and then vacuum it out? That is utterly insane. You are putting the mothers desire ahead of the fetuses life. Its not medically necessary. 99% of the time the mother is in no danger because of the baby. They just find it inconvenient. By that standard I should be about to execute someone who steals my parking space. It was inconvenient to me.
When you add in the fact that the people who are pushing women into getting abortions are profiting from it and the government who is regulating it is using the parts that result from the abortions. Plus the politicians are getting their cut. So what's next are we going to kill jobless people and give their organs to productive members of society? Its just insane. Its evil.
If some woman who is in the first trimester wants to get an abortion fine great that's on her. That's her moral choice etc. These body parts aren't coming from 6 week old fetuses. They have to allow the baby to grow a little to get those parts. Its all a scam to make money and the babies are the ones dying to make it all happen. The difference between this and things like trafficking child sex slaves seems almost non-existent to me.
But sense the government says its okay then its legal... and we are back to people worshiping the government... and if the government says its okay then its moral. See how that works. There is no moral framework of any kind. They can and will justify anything they feel like doing. There is no such thing as too far. Just look at China. Best anyone can tell they are harvesting organs from political prisoners.
Thus my comment. This isn't about god. You don't need god to be a moral person. You simply need a good moral framework. That can be based on a number of things or possibly even a combinations of things. These Marxist lunatics aren't getting that framework from logic or science or even borrowing it from religion. There are plenty of alternate ways to view a moral framework that for the most part works that has nothing to do with god. No these people are getting their morals from Marxist professors who have brainwashed them to believe anything the government bureaucracy approves of is moral.
One of my biggest complaints about various atheists movements is they tend to want to get rid of god but then don't bother to replace any of the social norms that religions generally fill in like having a sense of morality. Of course I now understand many of them do have a replacement in mind. They want people to be mindless a-moral drones that the government can program to do any task it deems is needed. You might know them as useful idiots.
Me? I'm a big fan of the golden rule... except I take it to another level. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. If I was a defenseless 6 months old fetus I wouldn't want someone to chop me up and sell me for parts. But see I also view it as instructive. Someone points a gun at me with the clear intent to shoot me... I assume they want me to shoot them. I do to them what they do to me. So clearly a person who chops up defenseless babies and sells them for parts wants me to chop them up and sell their organs... :) A firing squad will have to do though. The golden rule works both ways for me. Its a very simple way to view life but its served me well.
So you derive your morality from...what you decide is good or bad?
So it's subjective to what YOU decide? Or what the majority agree on?
You didn't answer the question.
It's a combination of both. Let's not mence words. MANY religious people don't get their moral code from the Bible or what a priest says. A lot of it comes from social pressures and community norms. That's exactly why you have inner city gang bangers who murder people on Saturday and go to church on Sunday. They believe in god they just choose to ignore the parts that aren't convenient to their chosen way to make money.
EVERYONE chooses their own path. If you think otherwise you're a fool. I am a more moral person that 90% of the "Christians" I've met in my life. I don't steal. I don't do drugs. I help people when I can, etc etc. There are a few things the bible says I shouldn't do that I don't believe in because the truth is they hurt no one so I ignore those rules. IE the ban on premarital sex. I don't even believe in marriage. Why? Because its based entirely on social norms created by religion. Why should I hold myself to rules and norms created by a false god? That isn't a moral issue anyway. Its a religion issue.
But yes many things come from what the majority agrees on. IE not having sex with anyone under 18. Don't get me wrong I'm no pedo, but up until around 100 to 150 years ago it was the norm for woman the get married and have kids at 15 or 16. The idea we have to wait for some arbitrary age defined by puritanical minded Christians is just silly. Its has little to nothing to do with a moral code and everything to do with an arbitrary rule.
That said I want to be clear... people who seek out prepubescent children or people who abuse their authority, entrap or enslave weak defenseless young people, etc... those people should be dealt with harshly. However, should a man over 18 be lucky enough to meet some 16 year old that was actually mature enough and wanted a relationship with them the arbitrary rules we put in place make that crime. They literally criminalize love. Talk about immoral. Although recently many states have made Romeo and Juliet laws to fix exactly this problem. However, they put age caps on it which is yet again arbitrary. They act like a 30 year old can't actually fall in love with a 17 year old and vice versa. Like its is completely impossible.
People like Epstein should be crushed because they are just abusing young women. However, the way they leave no room for the possibility of a real bond is in itself criminal if you asked me. And no I'm not talking about those retards in NAMBLA who want to be with 10 year olds. Fuck those retards. Or the idiots trolling for 13-14 years olds on the internet.
I hold myself to the given laws of a particular state because that is the sane thing to do and I have some self control. Its one of my biggest points about Epstein. That idiot had hundreds of millions of dollars. He could have setup shop in any state. MANY states have an age of consent that is 17 or even 16.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_the_United_States
All that idiot had to do is buy a mansion on the GA coast and he could round up, abuse, and pay all the 16+ year old girls he liked. It wouldn't have been illegal. It was never about that though. He could have just as easily made a point of being with 18 year olds in FL. No the whole point was he felt he was above the law. He felt like he could do anything he wanted to anyone he wanted and no one could stop him. Is what he did moral? I'd say no, mainly because of his intent which was to use and abuse them.
There is a reason they have whole classes devoted to morality etc. Truth is we could never discus it all here. There is one other truth though... most of those classes have been perverted by Marxists to the point were the class itself is immoral. They now teach people to be evil. That's the root of many of our problems today. We allow these lunatics to teach our children and just hope they don't corrupt them.
Right.
That's how Nazis and Communism happen.
So go ahead and say it:
"I come up with my own morality"
Which does nothing for the world because that still leads to MIGHT OVER RIGHT.
Biblical morality, the 10 Commandments, lead to RIGHTS over might.
Don't be intellectually dishonest with yourself.
The idea that a proper moral center can ONLY come from god is so utterly ridiculous its laughable. Fact of the matter is for decades there were atheists that went all in on "secular humanism". It was peace at all costs. Which is actually why we are in the mess we are in. Tons of people in Europe went down that road. Some consider that to be a more moral path than Christianity.
Nothing has to lead to might over right. You've missed the whole point of morality if you believe that is the only other path to follow. Let's face facts Christians spent hundreds of years murdering innocent people in the name of god. They repressed science and are pretty much entirely responsible for the dark ages. Witch trails? Flat earth?
Things like the printing press and other inventions and scientific discoveries eventually moved us past that even with the powers that be trying to prevent it.
I think you are the one being dishonest with yourself. Lose the dogma.