I really want to limit this discussion to more-or-less faithful members of the LDS church. It's going to focus on what we are taught vs. what the first presidency has recently said.
Here is the statement:
https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/first-presidency-message-covid-19-august-2021
Here's my 2 cents:
We have been taught since childhood that we only follow the prophet when he is inspired. The Holy Ghost will confirm for each of us whether the words he speaks are true.
We are never under any obligation to follow any teaching of the church unless it is confirmed by the Spirit to us. We can experiment with faith and see if a teaching or doctrine is true by trying it, but we are not saved or condemned based on our obedience to any law, except the ordinances of the gospel (faith, repentance. baptism, etc...) Remember that the Book of Mormon warns us not to teach more or less than this as the gospel.
We are not and never were a church of blind obedience first last and always. We are a church of revelation.
Speaking of which, nowhere did the FP say that this was a revelation. Nowhere did they cite any spiritual revelation or manifestation.
If they were dictating church policy, then as a church officer, I would be required to follow that policy, and if I could not for some reason, then I would best resign my position as an officer. But this is not that sort of message either. And besides, every change in policy has always had a "We prayed and received direction that..." clause on it.
As such, I treat this message the same as I treat any other message from a church leader that doesn't claim spiritual revelation: It goes in the round file as mere opinion. If I wanted the medical opinion of the first presidency, I would be paying them for their medical advice. If I wanted their legal opinion, I would be hiring them as a retainer for their legal advice. Since I have done none of those things, their opinion means nothing to me.
There are several obviously false statements in the FP message, besides.
- "We find ourselves fighting a war against the ravages of COVID-19 and its variants, an unrelenting pandemic." A war with a virus that is hardly harmful (compared to other actually dangerous diseases)? The coronavirus is just another flu, at worst, or a cold (more likely) -- yet why are we fighting an impossible to win war against these viruses that we have been "battling" for all of known history? The real war is with misinformation, and the reason why COVID-19 is even a thing is because Donald Trump was going to be re-elected.
- "We know that protection from the diseases they cause can only be achieved by immunizing a very high percentage of the population." This is obviously false. We have already seen 100% immunized populations explode with the new variant viruses -- if we can trust the tests at all (which we can't.) Indeed, many medical professionals are saying that the new variants were caused by the immunizations, and many are even saying that it doesn't even exist. Besides, for other vaccines, we have in recorded history seen vaccinated people carry the disease that they would've otherwise never had -- so if these were vaccines (they're not) they could actually be spreading the disease.
- "To limit exposure to these viruses, we urge the use of face masks in public meetings whenever social distancing is not possible." This is absurd advice, given medical research.
- "To provide personal protection from such severe infections, we urge individuals to be vaccinated." I know that the vaccines claim to eliminate severe infections, but given the data we have now, this is not what the vaccines are actually doing. Vaccinated people are showing up in the hospital in droves, while the unvaccinated are unaffected.
- "Available vaccines have proven to be both safe and effective." This is obviously false as well. How many have died from these vaccines now?
- "We can win this war if everyone will follow the wise and thoughtful recommendations of medical experts and government leaders." And what do "wise and thoughtful recommendations" say? There is no virus, the vaccines are very dangerous, and we shouldn't wear masks or socially distance. We should follow the Sweden model, which was the universal recommendation for responding to this type of disease in the first place.
So, pretty much the entire message contradicts what we can obviously see for ourselves.
The first presidency made a recommendation, that's all.
They are either ingenuous or feel this recommendation is necessary to prevent governments from persecuting and block our global efforts. I think it is unwise for the church to put itself in the middle of controversial topics, but it does so from time to time.
It's just a recommendation, we're free to follow it or not. It's not a revelation or commandment of any kind. If they come out later and say Thus Saith the Lord... well that will be a different conversation....
My thoughts too. The church is very careful crossing governments.
Sorry but I’m a god faring Christian myself and LDS is not good. I can’t even digest the post because the fact these people think Joseph smith really was the only one to receive divine messages from god restoring the original doctrines are insane lol Mormons have very weird practices.
I know very little about LDS. Still God will reach people where they are at and draw them to himself if they are willing.
We should not only focus on where somebody is coming from. We should look at the direction they are going. I have seen amazing changes in a neighbor family that were (maybe still are?) JW's They have come a long way over the past couple of years. I believe God is moving in that family and across the world.
While I completely understand where you are coming from I think we all need to be VERY careful not to be the ones that cause any of these little ones to stumble.
Just because a "church" does certain things does not mean everybody within that church follows.
We are not called to follow any church. We are called to follow Christ. That applies to all of us. it is too easy to believe that going to church is somehow the same as walking with Gold.
I've been told more than once by the Spirit to keep my trap shut about other sects. There is going to be a massive reunification when Christ appears. I expect to see people of all faiths embracing Him, and I won't be surprised if a lot of self-righteous, mormons or otherwise, won't be there.
I'll give an Amen to that
Stay here a while fren- we will have you praising Jesus before it’s over 🙌🏻
Christ lives and His gospel has been restored in its fullness!
You missed the beginning of my statement (god faring Christian) so I already have a relationship with both. Joseph smith and his weird underwear wearing having ass is a false prophet lol
I think I might have missed your point (but it could just be a spelling error).
You wrote god faring christian. Did you mean God fearing Christian?
Whenever I use the word God to refer to The Living God The G is capitalize. if I use the word god to refer to idols or false gods the g is lowercase.
Does that apply to what you are saying?
Also I do not understand the word faring if it is not a misspelling.
Believe me I am the king of misspelling. So I am not saying anything bad about you. I would not have brought it up but you pointed it out and I am trying to understand you.
Carry on lol
Historically, Joseph Smith had a profound impact on all Christianity. Compare the teachings of Christian churches before and after Joseph Smith came to the scene; they very quickly changed their teachings from "revelation ceased with the apostles" to "we can all receive revelation and prophecy." Pretty interesting stuff!
LDS is a cultm
You can try to pretend it's not real, but there's thousands of anecdotes from women who were used by clergy in Utah. "PURIFICATION" rituals = organized rape
And it's not just women, it's teenage and preteen girls too.
There's also that whole polygamy thing. Some mormons are so passionate about it they moved to Mexico (and are now drug mules)
They also supposedly wear funny underwear.
White boxers and a white shirt. It's represents an internal commitment to remain pure in one's thoughts and actions. Not really all that funny, sorry to say...
Nope
We have tons of Protestants and Catholics on here and damn we disagree a lot sometimes but I think we can all say LDS is some dangerous stuff 🤭
Nope, been to lots of churches in my life and never had a better relationship with Jesus Christ than I do as a Latter-day Saint!
Surely we can all agree that Christ lives and has already won, though!
See unfortunately I find it to be the opposite. LDS has stolen my brother from me. Couldn’t even be his actual best man because of “muh religion” come on man.
Yeah your brother should have been more considerate of you and your family, could have easily had a private ceremony in the temple for their spiritual "sealing" and a public ceremony for friends and family. I'm sure his intention wasn't to dis you, was probably following some dumb advice he thought made sense at the time.
Curious, how long ago was this? I've seen the church do a much better job recently in handling situations like this where the entire family aren't all members.