Even worse. Imagine defending Jesus and getting killed on the spot while some Roman dog spits on him, lives a long life, then right before dying of old age has a punt in the confession box and walks thought the gates of heaven anyway.
The heart of the Gospel is mercy and forgiveness friend. But, one must be sincerely repentant. I would not wish hell on the most wretched such as those people that did this to Christ. He forgave them from the cross!
You mentioned Hell like you believe it's good and justified and necessary. I disagree and take issue with the morality of people that worship a deity that they believe tortures people for eternity and then claim to have the moral high ground.
Pragmatically speaking, you feel safe in your afterlife to assume you wouldn't be there too?
How about if one of your kids tricked a third of your kids and grandkids and let them astray and killed them. Would you just ignore that? And that's not even close to being a fair comparison. Imagine you made a bunch of of sentient robots to help you build your business.. and one rebelled against you, reprogrammed a third of your robots and they all started killing and destroying everything, your family, your friends, your house, your business, they came after everything. You'd just roll over if you held the off switch? No man, you'd melt that one down into slag with a flamethrower.
exactly. Matthew 7:21-23. God must come to know you during your time on the physical realm. you do this by accepting Jesus and living in His image. When you get to the gates and think you can repent and then enter, I'm sorry but you will have a rude awakening. God is equal parts love and equal parts judgement/justice.
I honestly have no problem with that. I too am a sinner. I can literally forgive anyone because God has forgiven much in me. “Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.”
Luke 7:47
You are misunderstanding what that verse is saying. Once you are saved, you will by nature do good works great or small. Trying to say you can do a lot of good stuff and earn your way into Heaven is a slap in the face to Jesus’ perfect finished work on the cross. Christ did it all, the only thing we have to do is accept him and we are saved. I’m sorry if you don’t like that, but it’s really just your ego telling you that you can do righteous works and earn your salvation. “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.”
Ephesians 2:8-9
That isn't what I'm saying at all - nor is it what James is saying. I do not believe in a works based faith. "Once you are saved, you will by nature do good works great or small." This sentence is closer to what I, and James, is saying.
The thief on the cross next to Jesus is proof that faith (justified belief) is all that's required to enter Paradise. If you don't die right after your true confession, then you will by nature (new nature) do good works.
So you're saying, a total unbelieving asshole will not go to heaven if he dies after just receiving Jesus Christ as his lord and savior at an alter call?
See? You're wrong. Belief is all that's required. Behavior isn't a contingency.
This is a fair question, and I hope it shows you the complex nature of God that goes beyond our comprehension. Belief alone, will not get you into heaven. It is the first step and without it you won't get in, even if you live a mostly good life (no one can live a perfect life). God must also come to know you during your time on earth by imaging Christ. Grace made it possible though, because we cleanse ourself in the blood of Christ that allows us to enter the Kingdom without being destroyed. This is made evident throughout the Bible. You must do good works AND accept Christ by loving Him will all your heart, mind, and strength. So if you live a sinful life and reject God until the very last minute, do you get into heaven? Only God can answer that, he can see your true nature, but I would argue no (at first). But this doesn't mean you are doomed either. Hell is another concept many Christians don't seem to fully understand. Hell is the holding cell before your final trial. There is pain and suffering in hell, much like we see in today's world, but that isn't the end judgement. The final judgement comes on the day of the Lord, and if you still have a hardened heart, you get tossed into the lake of fire (which is what the common belief of hell is now). Hope this helps explain somethings!
Even worse. Imagine defending Jesus and getting killed on the spot while some Roman dog spits on him, lives a long life, then right before dying of old age has a punt in the confession box and walks thought the gates of heaven anyway.
One does not merely "punt into the confession box", homie.
You can fool some of the people some of the time, etc.
You can never fool God.
The heart of the Gospel is mercy and forgiveness friend. But, one must be sincerely repentant. I would not wish hell on the most wretched such as those people that did this to Christ. He forgave them from the cross!
Herrrre we go again, Okie....
Such a sophomoric, New Atheistic understanding of Christian Theology.
Are you wearing a spaghetti strainer on your head, too?
See? Mockery can go both ways.
What???
You mentioned Hell like you believe it's good and justified and necessary. I disagree and take issue with the morality of people that worship a deity that they believe tortures people for eternity and then claim to have the moral high ground.
It's fascinating to me so I like to discuss it.
Pragmatically speaking, you feel safe in your afterlife to assume you wouldn't be there too?
How about if one of your kids tricked a third of your kids and grandkids and let them astray and killed them. Would you just ignore that? And that's not even close to being a fair comparison. Imagine you made a bunch of of sentient robots to help you build your business.. and one rebelled against you, reprogrammed a third of your robots and they all started killing and destroying everything, your family, your friends, your house, your business, they came after everything. You'd just roll over if you held the off switch? No man, you'd melt that one down into slag with a flamethrower.
I'm as worried about Hell as you are about any other religions Hell.
Sounds like the robot maker fucked up.
exactly. Matthew 7:21-23. God must come to know you during your time on the physical realm. you do this by accepting Jesus and living in His image. When you get to the gates and think you can repent and then enter, I'm sorry but you will have a rude awakening. God is equal parts love and equal parts judgement/justice.
I honestly have no problem with that. I too am a sinner. I can literally forgive anyone because God has forgiven much in me. “Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.” Luke 7:47
Nowhere does it say you must be a good person to enter heaven... Just forgiven. Your beliefs determine your reward, not your behavior.
Isn't that great?!
Wrong, again. You really need a better understanding of what you are accusing, Mr Pastafarian.
"Faith without works is dead."
Read the book of James. It's short.
You are misunderstanding what that verse is saying. Once you are saved, you will by nature do good works great or small. Trying to say you can do a lot of good stuff and earn your way into Heaven is a slap in the face to Jesus’ perfect finished work on the cross. Christ did it all, the only thing we have to do is accept him and we are saved. I’m sorry if you don’t like that, but it’s really just your ego telling you that you can do righteous works and earn your salvation. “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.” Ephesians 2:8-9
That isn't what I'm saying at all - nor is it what James is saying. I do not believe in a works based faith. "Once you are saved, you will by nature do good works great or small." This sentence is closer to what I, and James, is saying.
The thief on the cross next to Jesus is proof that faith (justified belief) is all that's required to enter Paradise. If you don't die right after your true confession, then you will by nature (new nature) do good works.
So you're saying, a total unbelieving asshole will not go to heaven if he dies after just receiving Jesus Christ as his lord and savior at an alter call?
See? You're wrong. Belief is all that's required. Behavior isn't a contingency.
This is a fair question, and I hope it shows you the complex nature of God that goes beyond our comprehension. Belief alone, will not get you into heaven. It is the first step and without it you won't get in, even if you live a mostly good life (no one can live a perfect life). God must also come to know you during your time on earth by imaging Christ. Grace made it possible though, because we cleanse ourself in the blood of Christ that allows us to enter the Kingdom without being destroyed. This is made evident throughout the Bible. You must do good works AND accept Christ by loving Him will all your heart, mind, and strength. So if you live a sinful life and reject God until the very last minute, do you get into heaven? Only God can answer that, he can see your true nature, but I would argue no (at first). But this doesn't mean you are doomed either. Hell is another concept many Christians don't seem to fully understand. Hell is the holding cell before your final trial. There is pain and suffering in hell, much like we see in today's world, but that isn't the end judgement. The final judgement comes on the day of the Lord, and if you still have a hardened heart, you get tossed into the lake of fire (which is what the common belief of hell is now). Hope this helps explain somethings!