God did not put the sabbath on Sunday, it’s on Saturday.
Acts 20:7
On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his speech until midnight.
The first day of the week would be Sunday.
Romans 14:5-6
One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.
The whole chapter of Romans 14 is a good read on this topic.
Colossians 2:16
Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.
I think there’s a lot here to dig into.
I’d be very careful what to say on this topic. Just because someone has a Christmas tradition, it doesn’t mean I can judge the motives of their hearts as evil. God knows their hearts and whether their allegiance is to him or not. We will know by their fruits (Matthew 7:20). There are a lot of fruits to identify so I’d be wary of taking one tradition as an indicator of someone’s whole way of life. It may or may not be a good indicator.
It’s a good question to ask and worth thinking about. I would probably look at it from multiple angles and ask questions such as:
Is there a violation of scripture?
Is there a violation of conscience?
Will this cause another believe to stumble?
Does this give the appearance of evil? To Christians? To non-Christians? 1 Thess 5:22
Is this being done in secret or am I using a freedom to cover up evil? 1 Pe 2:16
Back on the Christmas topic, another way of looking at it is following the “Argument of the Beard”. If we start with the hypothetical assumption that American Christmas is reenacting a pagan ritual, which elements of the tradition do we need to remove for it to no longer be pagan? Lights, trees, gift giving? Family dinners? Are certain songs bad? What if we replace telling Santa stories with telling the story of the birth of Jesus Christ the savior of the world?
I like your question and think it’s worth thinking about,
Thank you. Whilst I probably can't give those fair questions you pose a full answer I would say that if one number 1 was correct then all the rest surely must follow.
Is number 1 correct? I know Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for steadfastly retaining their customs and traditions against their better judgement but I don't think it particularly applies here.
Col 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.
Given that Christmas is December the 25th which was the Winter Solstice in the Roman Calendar (according to Wiki) and that the Winter Solstice was celebrated in the Pagan world it probably fits the description of "a tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world (ie principles such as seasonal things - like the shortest day). Has the notion of Christmas been the result of Christians being cheated through philosophy and empty deceit? Dunno. I dunno if Christmas would be amongst the things referred to in Colossians. The chapter is about Philosophy and Legalism.
In answer to your paragraph, the first thought that came to my mind in response was that it ought to be Christianity that is removed, rather than any of the traditional xmassy (or pagan) elements. If Christmas day was just a pagan celebration rebranded and shoehorned into Christian tradition then it would seem to make more sense to me to remove the falsity of it rather than the origin. Christianity in a sense is an interloper into this celebration. A cuckoo, if you catch my drift.
Having said that, I think like you've sort of said it's taken on a life of it's own wherein the original meanings of the holiday are no longer the current meaning.
It's definitely an interesting inquiry. None of the above represent a definite position of mine, I'm just exploring the subject with you and will reserve judgement
You know that the only thing even close to a "Jesus approved ritual" mentioned in the Bible would be the catholic/orthodox eucharist with the bread and wine, eaten and drinked in His memory, right ? My opinion, you're getting a bit too extreme on this, but if you really don't want to celebrate these traditions, go to church's service and join in for some volunteer work for veterans or the poor, or donate to charity.
Then again, it's not a ritual or tradition, unless you take the eastern orthodox and catholics into the account.Although its been proven to be helpful in its own way
It wasn't this whole current awakening, but a process of having our eyes opened over many years for us. I do see it as part of the whole process.
You know, the Bible does include the "holidays" Feast Days that God designed for His people. Sometimes called Jewish Feasts, in truth, they tell the whole story of Messiah. Walking through the Feasts, from Passover, (Doesn't every Believer know that He was the Passover Lamb?) which was prophetic of His first coming, through Tabernacles and the Fall Feasts which are prophetic of His second coming, and represents the coming Marriage Feast of the Lamb, draws us more closely to past and future aspects of Messiah's work on our behalf.
There are thousands of people around the world now returning to these ancient paths, following Jesus/Yeshua ever more closely, though in your own local area it may seem like a "weird" unusual thing.
It IS possible to give gifts to family/friends anytime you want! It is not necessary to wait for a specific "holiday" of any kind.
We ended celebration of Christmas, and yes, threw out all the related "stuff" with a sense of great relief! (and Easter) twenty years ago when both aspects became clear to us:
the addition of things NOT in the Word, per Biblical directive not to add or take away
and 2) that the things that were added actually incorporated or imitated pagan practices.
No one alive today made these changes.
Though most people that make this change find greater intimacy with Messiah,
(I have surveyed hundreds of people who have made this change) they are often misunderstood and meet great criticism from those that do not yet understand. Always learning more about standing firm in Messiah.
Once you know, it is not possible to close your eyes again and remain intellectually and spiritually honest, in my opinion.
This has been our path. We started following the Biblical Feasts and the others fell aside. Tabernacles in the Fall is our big celebration. It was likely during that Feast that Jesus was born.
My kids can feel the sting when their friends share about their Christmas haul. I tell them that I give them gifts all thru the year. I don't hide them in the closet all year long and then one morning, finally bring them all out. I give them as they have needs or interest--like a bike in the spring or a book on bees when they start asking questions about them all of the sudden.
I also noticed early on that some of my kids can't handle too much at one time and it really showed with gifts. The more gifts they got for a birthday, the more miserable and crabby they were. I started cutting back and they were happier. Weird but true.
We do have some traditions we keep in the winter to boost morale, mainly based on food. Winter is cold, wet, and dark in our area so we do need something to look forward to. We don't have extended family nor many friends so don't get the chance to socialize which is one thing missing in our lives. The friends we do have are soooooo busy during the holidays that we actually don't see them.
For me, I never really liked all the decorations, they often just seemed artificial. Knowing that they were made by Chinese slave labor made them even more unappealing.
We haven't had a tree in my immediate family since I was four. We celebrated a version of Christmas until my sister and I were teens and were old enough to understand why we didn't really "do Christmas" like everyone else did. Now that she and I are grown and married with kids, we have our own holiday traditions, but still don't have conventional celebrations, and neither of us will allow a tree in our respective homes.
One of the traditions that my oldest and I started together was to visit holiday light displays. They're pretty, the kids like them, and I feel as though they can be viewed as pretty lights separately from paganism. Another thing is that we pick as many angel tree kids as we can afford that year, and we buy gifts for them. They have so much fun picking out things for another child, and I really feel that we can do it separately from paganism (if I stumbled across an angel tree any other time of year, we would still do it). Also, we do try to have a meal with extended family between Thanksgiving and Christmas; the family fellowship is nice even though they all think we're a bunch of weirdos for not celebrating Christmas and Easter and not taking our kids trick or treating and whatnot.
I mean I put up a tree and lights with mostly christian ornaments (cuz I have a collection of fun fun star wars ones sorry not sorry), and I sing caroles about the birth of our savior. Then I eat good food with both sides of my family and exchange some gifts. Usually clothing items or some candy. That doesn't seem satanic to me.... Honestly I think intent is a big part of Christmas. We do all these fun things during the holiday season, but as a Christian you should be using this time of year to glorify the birth of our savior Jesus Christ. Which I mean it can be argued that Jesus wasn't born on December 25th but the intent of the holiday is to GLORIFY GOD IN ALL HIS MAJESTY AND POWER AND GLORY. Yule was a pagan holiday but by the grace and wisdom of God it became about His son. Through God, something intended to be pagan became something Christian as long as we all don't get caught up in the material aspects of the holidays that gets advertised everywhere you look. Now THAT is truly amazing and just shows that God wins in the end every single time
We dont do Santa in my house. My child knows of him but I dont lie to him that Santa brings gifts or that elfs are real. I dont like the greed nor the lying. I truly feel it was to pull us from the true meaning and into sin.
We celebrate Jesus and being thankful. We bake and do art. We focus on Christmas' true meaning not the fakeness that over took it. I enjoy our tree and sing songs. All about Jesus and family
The first day of the week would be Sunday.
The whole chapter of Romans 14 is a good read on this topic.
I think there’s a lot here to dig into.
I’d be very careful what to say on this topic. Just because someone has a Christmas tradition, it doesn’t mean I can judge the motives of their hearts as evil. God knows their hearts and whether their allegiance is to him or not. We will know by their fruits (Matthew 7:20). There are a lot of fruits to identify so I’d be wary of taking one tradition as an indicator of someone’s whole way of life. It may or may not be a good indicator.
Just keep in mind that the Law of Love and Grace greatly supercedes the law of the books. Take it a bit easier and have a merry Christmas,fren
I believe what you said is fair and balanced, but if one discovers that they have inadvertently been engaging in a pagan ritual, should they continue?
It's one thing to do it unknowingly, but once it becomes known to you what is your responsibility - to tradition or to the spirit?
It’s a good question to ask and worth thinking about. I would probably look at it from multiple angles and ask questions such as:
Back on the Christmas topic, another way of looking at it is following the “Argument of the Beard”. If we start with the hypothetical assumption that American Christmas is reenacting a pagan ritual, which elements of the tradition do we need to remove for it to no longer be pagan? Lights, trees, gift giving? Family dinners? Are certain songs bad? What if we replace telling Santa stories with telling the story of the birth of Jesus Christ the savior of the world?
I like your question and think it’s worth thinking about,
Thank you. Whilst I probably can't give those fair questions you pose a full answer I would say that if one number 1 was correct then all the rest surely must follow.
Is number 1 correct? I know Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for steadfastly retaining their customs and traditions against their better judgement but I don't think it particularly applies here.
Col 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.
Given that Christmas is December the 25th which was the Winter Solstice in the Roman Calendar (according to Wiki) and that the Winter Solstice was celebrated in the Pagan world it probably fits the description of "a tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world (ie principles such as seasonal things - like the shortest day). Has the notion of Christmas been the result of Christians being cheated through philosophy and empty deceit? Dunno. I dunno if Christmas would be amongst the things referred to in Colossians. The chapter is about Philosophy and Legalism.
In answer to your paragraph, the first thought that came to my mind in response was that it ought to be Christianity that is removed, rather than any of the traditional xmassy (or pagan) elements. If Christmas day was just a pagan celebration rebranded and shoehorned into Christian tradition then it would seem to make more sense to me to remove the falsity of it rather than the origin. Christianity in a sense is an interloper into this celebration. A cuckoo, if you catch my drift.
Having said that, I think like you've sort of said it's taken on a life of it's own wherein the original meanings of the holiday are no longer the current meaning.
It's definitely an interesting inquiry. None of the above represent a definite position of mine, I'm just exploring the subject with you and will reserve judgement
Based.
You know that the only thing even close to a "Jesus approved ritual" mentioned in the Bible would be the catholic/orthodox eucharist with the bread and wine, eaten and drinked in His memory, right ? My opinion, you're getting a bit too extreme on this, but if you really don't want to celebrate these traditions, go to church's service and join in for some volunteer work for veterans or the poor, or donate to charity.
Jesus said to fast, which I don't believe is a common practice amongst westerners generally, let alone just Christians.
Then again, it's not a ritual or tradition, unless you take the eastern orthodox and catholics into the account.Although its been proven to be helpful in its own way
My Christmas tree is filled with religious based ornaments that I give away to anyone who is inspired by it.
What an awesome idea!
It wasn't this whole current awakening, but a process of having our eyes opened over many years for us. I do see it as part of the whole process.
You know, the Bible does include the "holidays" Feast Days that God designed for His people. Sometimes called Jewish Feasts, in truth, they tell the whole story of Messiah. Walking through the Feasts, from Passover, (Doesn't every Believer know that He was the Passover Lamb?) which was prophetic of His first coming, through Tabernacles and the Fall Feasts which are prophetic of His second coming, and represents the coming Marriage Feast of the Lamb, draws us more closely to past and future aspects of Messiah's work on our behalf.
There are thousands of people around the world now returning to these ancient paths, following Jesus/Yeshua ever more closely, though in your own local area it may seem like a "weird" unusual thing.
It IS possible to give gifts to family/friends anytime you want! It is not necessary to wait for a specific "holiday" of any kind.
We ended celebration of Christmas, and yes, threw out all the related "stuff" with a sense of great relief! (and Easter) twenty years ago when both aspects became clear to us:
and 2) that the things that were added actually incorporated or imitated pagan practices.
No one alive today made these changes.
Though most people that make this change find greater intimacy with Messiah, (I have surveyed hundreds of people who have made this change) they are often misunderstood and meet great criticism from those that do not yet understand. Always learning more about standing firm in Messiah.
Once you know, it is not possible to close your eyes again and remain intellectually and spiritually honest, in my opinion.
This has been our path. We started following the Biblical Feasts and the others fell aside. Tabernacles in the Fall is our big celebration. It was likely during that Feast that Jesus was born.
My kids can feel the sting when their friends share about their Christmas haul. I tell them that I give them gifts all thru the year. I don't hide them in the closet all year long and then one morning, finally bring them all out. I give them as they have needs or interest--like a bike in the spring or a book on bees when they start asking questions about them all of the sudden.
I also noticed early on that some of my kids can't handle too much at one time and it really showed with gifts. The more gifts they got for a birthday, the more miserable and crabby they were. I started cutting back and they were happier. Weird but true.
We do have some traditions we keep in the winter to boost morale, mainly based on food. Winter is cold, wet, and dark in our area so we do need something to look forward to. We don't have extended family nor many friends so don't get the chance to socialize which is one thing missing in our lives. The friends we do have are soooooo busy during the holidays that we actually don't see them.
For me, I never really liked all the decorations, they often just seemed artificial. Knowing that they were made by Chinese slave labor made them even more unappealing.
I no longer celebrate Halloween. The difference for me though is Halloween is celebrating demonic forces.
I do not think that our Christmas trees is an example of Idolatry. We are not celebrating a pagan God.
fasting.
I never celebrated Christmas anyway = it just never felt right.
We haven't had a tree in my immediate family since I was four. We celebrated a version of Christmas until my sister and I were teens and were old enough to understand why we didn't really "do Christmas" like everyone else did. Now that she and I are grown and married with kids, we have our own holiday traditions, but still don't have conventional celebrations, and neither of us will allow a tree in our respective homes.
One of the traditions that my oldest and I started together was to visit holiday light displays. They're pretty, the kids like them, and I feel as though they can be viewed as pretty lights separately from paganism. Another thing is that we pick as many angel tree kids as we can afford that year, and we buy gifts for them. They have so much fun picking out things for another child, and I really feel that we can do it separately from paganism (if I stumbled across an angel tree any other time of year, we would still do it). Also, we do try to have a meal with extended family between Thanksgiving and Christmas; the family fellowship is nice even though they all think we're a bunch of weirdos for not celebrating Christmas and Easter and not taking our kids trick or treating and whatnot.
Good luck on your journey!
I mean I put up a tree and lights with mostly christian ornaments (cuz I have a collection of fun fun star wars ones sorry not sorry), and I sing caroles about the birth of our savior. Then I eat good food with both sides of my family and exchange some gifts. Usually clothing items or some candy. That doesn't seem satanic to me.... Honestly I think intent is a big part of Christmas. We do all these fun things during the holiday season, but as a Christian you should be using this time of year to glorify the birth of our savior Jesus Christ. Which I mean it can be argued that Jesus wasn't born on December 25th but the intent of the holiday is to GLORIFY GOD IN ALL HIS MAJESTY AND POWER AND GLORY. Yule was a pagan holiday but by the grace and wisdom of God it became about His son. Through God, something intended to be pagan became something Christian as long as we all don't get caught up in the material aspects of the holidays that gets advertised everywhere you look. Now THAT is truly amazing and just shows that God wins in the end every single time
EVERGREENS!?! <panic ensues> Please tell me I'm not going to find Hillary hiding under my Christmas tree!
Seriously, though, I expect Christmas will be a low-key event in my house. I'm just not feeling the holiday spirit this year.
We dont do Santa in my house. My child knows of him but I dont lie to him that Santa brings gifts or that elfs are real. I dont like the greed nor the lying. I truly feel it was to pull us from the true meaning and into sin. We celebrate Jesus and being thankful. We bake and do art. We focus on Christmas' true meaning not the fakeness that over took it. I enjoy our tree and sing songs. All about Jesus and family
Maybe the lack of material presents is to wake up people to the real reason we celebrate Christmas. Our Savior Jesus Christ
Want to give your family a Merry Christmas? Buy them and yourself Guns and ammunition. WIN!
WTF? I come here to talk and learn about about serious stuff .How come the trivial chit chat about your xmas decorations. Who cares.