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tomthung 43 points ago +44 / -1

Too bad we don't know the truth. Like 9/11 we just see the effect.

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zanonks 28 points ago +28 / -0

Good book called Day of Deceit does a pretty good job telling us to some degree about how much FDR knew and how the leadership in pearl harbor was intentionally kept in the dark on intelligence regarding the movement of the Japanese. In addition, the US had intentionally drawn fire from the Japanese using a long list of provocations. It's certain that FDR wanted us in the world war and provoked the attack on pearl harbor to make it happen all while leaving the naval leadership on the ground in the dark.

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y000danon 20 points ago +20 / -0

This.

Research the McCollum Memo.

FDR asked a lead Analyst “what could we do to instigate war with Japan” and was literally handed the list of what to do.

FDR then did exactly those things. The Japanese also had a code of Bushido and couldn’t do a surprise attack. They told us through their ambassador in DC they had declared war and would attack the western United States.

A. Make an arrangement with Britain for the use of British bases in the Pacific, particularly Singapore

B. Make an arrangement with the Netherlands for the use of base facilities and acquisition of supplies in the Dutch East Indies

C. Give all possible aid to the Chinese government of Chiang-Kai-Shek

D. Send a division of long range heavy cruisers to the Orient, Philippines, or Singapore

E. Send two divisions of submarines to the Orient

F. Keep the main strength of the U.S. fleet now in the Pacific[,] in the vicinity of the Hawaiian Islands

G. Insist that the Dutch refuse to grant Japanese demands for undue economic concessions, particularly oil

H. Completely embargo all U.S. trade with Japan, in collaboration with a similar embargo imposed by the British Empire If by these means Japan could be led to commit an overt act of war, so much the better. At all events we must be fully prepared to accept the threat of war.

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deleted 3 points ago +3 / -0
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y000danon 6 points ago +6 / -0

Yes. The attack was planned to happen at 1:20 - 1:30 and the Ambassador of Japan supposedly was planned to delivery the declaration at 1:00PM

https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/WorldWar2/memo.htm

There is mystery and suspicion around what exactly happened - but Japan absolutely intended to declare war in person citing the flagrant disregard for seeking a common ground ( their words ). They basically said it was obvious the United States was not interested in working things out - therefore there "would be no further negotiations"

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deleted 6 points ago +6 / -0
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Vests123 2 points ago +2 / -0

So what else has changed?

They've just increased their entrenchment in the government.

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deleted 2 points ago +2 / -0
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wethepeople74 13 points ago +13 / -0

We know enough to know we’ve been fucked, and not just by the Japanese.

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megalithicallstar 3 points ago +3 / -0

oh but we do.