Thanks for the thoughtful response. I'm on mobile right now so I can't even hope to address it all.
We can both agree this isn't a salvific issue and we are both in Christ.
I'll say this; "God is sovereign" seems to be clear. There don't seem to be any exceptions in scripture like "God is sovereign except over X" The verses I shared from my viewpoint, seem quite clear. When I became a Christian I didn't know what Calvinism was or what TULIP or predestination was. I knew that I was dragged kicking and screaming against my will / nature into Christ through nothing I did on my own. One that happened I wouldn't change a thing but it was not something I wanted at the time at all.
Yes people were praying for me, especially my Grandmother. But prayer from another person still requires God to act so that doesn't change anything. He is still the one to save if that was the case. Yes even my groans and despair were calls to God since that is the nature of every groan. But I didn't chose Him, He chose me.
I went from 20+ year drug addict / dealer / supplier in and out of jail / prison to radically transformed. I was dead in my sin and Jesus breathed new life into me and commanded me to ride up and serve Him. Who am I to question God at that point?
Within a couple of years God lead me to my now home church, Apologia with Jeff Durbin & Dr James White. Along the way I saw in scripture some of those verses and recognized that's what happened to me. People had been telling me "I made a choice" or "decided to turn my life around" and things like that and I always said "No, God did it. He saved me. He transformed me when I didn't want it." But the scripture showed me what really happened. Then I learned more about predestination, aka Calvinism, and it just fit.
God gave me a unique skill set that that church needed and put me exactly where I'm supposed to be to serve in His perfect timing after raising me up. My weakness and struggles equipped me to serve Christians and non-Christians all over the continent and beyond in ways that no one else I know can and in a way I really wish I could share with you but I can't. Let's just say that I've helped alot of Christians, pastors, families, and missionaries in the last year be able to move about freely.
Bless you as well. God wins and Christ is king and making all His enemies His footstool and we're alive to watch it front row.
People had been telling me "I made a choice" or "decided to turn my life around" and things like that and I always said "No, God did it. He saved me. He transformed me when I didn't want it."
It's right and correct to give the glory to God. However, even you are acknowledging that you have been given a unique skills set. What you do with that set will be guided and led by God, but only if you are willing, and only if you put Him in that central position. In my view.
I feel like, to establish a common wavelength, we'd have to share a lot more and in person.
You intense determination to give all the credit to him - is there anything wrong with that? A true heart knows that without God, I am nothing. The arrogant ignorant heart thinks, I neither need God nor is God important to me.
But prayer from another person still requires God to act so that doesn't change anything. He is still the one to save if that was the case.
It's statements like this that make me think we'd need a lot more interaction to establish a common wavelength in terms of thought. Because I cannot really understand what I've shared that might give you to imagine that I could possibly disagree with these statements. To me, they are obvious and a given. Yes, the saving of any life and soul requires God to act. He is the agent. And yes, God saves. However, in my view, this does not negate that what we choose to do or not do can affect and influence how and when God acts. Scripture seems pretty clear to me that we are exhorted to utilize our agency, granted by God.
I guess in the way I see things there is room for both God's greatness and also the responsibility and greatness in heart he wants me to aspire to. It's not one or the other. They are two sides of the same coin. Any ability or gift I have comes from God, so acknowledging them honors God, in my view.
But, let's put aside these things for a while. They are but reflections of our different paths to Him, our different paths in the here and now, and the different relationships we have with He who loves us beyond knowledge and wisdom.
Our two, varied and different views can thus be seen multiplying the Glory of God. For each child that returns to Him is like a new creation coming home.
I am grateful and encouraged by your testimony and by the way he has opened up your life and led you to the place(s) where you can multiply His goodness, and help so many others.
So, for a short time, let us put theology away, and glorify the Father whose love transcends all things, and who compassion knows no limits.
Thank you so much for sharing with me.
We are anons here, but I will tell you, my mother named me for one of the disciples. I don't know if we will encounter each other again, but I ask God to bless the path before you, to make the ground soft and supple beneath your feet, and to being joy into the hearts of those who are a part of your life.
Thanks for the thoughtful response. I'm on mobile right now so I can't even hope to address it all.
We can both agree this isn't a salvific issue and we are both in Christ.
I'll say this; "God is sovereign" seems to be clear. There don't seem to be any exceptions in scripture like "God is sovereign except over X" The verses I shared from my viewpoint, seem quite clear. When I became a Christian I didn't know what Calvinism was or what TULIP or predestination was. I knew that I was dragged kicking and screaming against my will / nature into Christ through nothing I did on my own. One that happened I wouldn't change a thing but it was not something I wanted at the time at all.
Yes people were praying for me, especially my Grandmother. But prayer from another person still requires God to act so that doesn't change anything. He is still the one to save if that was the case. Yes even my groans and despair were calls to God since that is the nature of every groan. But I didn't chose Him, He chose me.
I went from 20+ year drug addict / dealer / supplier in and out of jail / prison to radically transformed. I was dead in my sin and Jesus breathed new life into me and commanded me to ride up and serve Him. Who am I to question God at that point?
Within a couple of years God lead me to my now home church, Apologia with Jeff Durbin & Dr James White. Along the way I saw in scripture some of those verses and recognized that's what happened to me. People had been telling me "I made a choice" or "decided to turn my life around" and things like that and I always said "No, God did it. He saved me. He transformed me when I didn't want it." But the scripture showed me what really happened. Then I learned more about predestination, aka Calvinism, and it just fit.
God gave me a unique skill set that that church needed and put me exactly where I'm supposed to be to serve in His perfect timing after raising me up. My weakness and struggles equipped me to serve Christians and non-Christians all over the continent and beyond in ways that no one else I know can and in a way I really wish I could share with you but I can't. Let's just say that I've helped alot of Christians, pastors, families, and missionaries in the last year be able to move about freely.
Bless you as well. God wins and Christ is king and making all His enemies His footstool and we're alive to watch it front row.
It's right and correct to give the glory to God. However, even you are acknowledging that you have been given a unique skills set. What you do with that set will be guided and led by God, but only if you are willing, and only if you put Him in that central position. In my view.
I feel like, to establish a common wavelength, we'd have to share a lot more and in person.
You intense determination to give all the credit to him - is there anything wrong with that? A true heart knows that without God, I am nothing. The arrogant ignorant heart thinks, I neither need God nor is God important to me.
It's statements like this that make me think we'd need a lot more interaction to establish a common wavelength in terms of thought. Because I cannot really understand what I've shared that might give you to imagine that I could possibly disagree with these statements. To me, they are obvious and a given. Yes, the saving of any life and soul requires God to act. He is the agent. And yes, God saves. However, in my view, this does not negate that what we choose to do or not do can affect and influence how and when God acts. Scripture seems pretty clear to me that we are exhorted to utilize our agency, granted by God.
I guess in the way I see things there is room for both God's greatness and also the responsibility and greatness in heart he wants me to aspire to. It's not one or the other. They are two sides of the same coin. Any ability or gift I have comes from God, so acknowledging them honors God, in my view.
But, let's put aside these things for a while. They are but reflections of our different paths to Him, our different paths in the here and now, and the different relationships we have with He who loves us beyond knowledge and wisdom.
Our two, varied and different views can thus be seen multiplying the Glory of God. For each child that returns to Him is like a new creation coming home.
I am grateful and encouraged by your testimony and by the way he has opened up your life and led you to the place(s) where you can multiply His goodness, and help so many others.
So, for a short time, let us put theology away, and glorify the Father whose love transcends all things, and who compassion knows no limits.
Thank you so much for sharing with me.
We are anons here, but I will tell you, my mother named me for one of the disciples. I don't know if we will encounter each other again, but I ask God to bless the path before you, to make the ground soft and supple beneath your feet, and to being joy into the hearts of those who are a part of your life.
Thank you Jesus. Amen, let it be so.
Amen