First, I am Catholic, and so is this other guy.

I responded to him and asked, "Do you remember how you felt when the first news about Catholic priest abuses in Boston broke, a couple of decades ago?"

He replied, "I was sort of numbed with disbelief."

"Okay," I continued, "and have you ever thought about how such a scandal could exist for so long, not to mention other scandals? Have you ever thought about the power structure at the top levels of the church administration that manipulated things to keep all the scandals a secret?"

"I guess I never thought of it that way," he replied.

"Well, " I said, "do you think that the the Catholic church is the only entity in the history of the world to have a power structure, and secret scandals, etc.?"

Silence.

"And so," I added, "by simple extrapolation, I am confident that a relatively tiny number of people in the highest positions among the governments, corporations and other institutions are all busy pushing their agendas, and protecting their secrets. And if that's true, it's probably just as true that an even higher level of controllers are orchestrating things to their advantage and to further their agenda."

Deer in the headlights stare.